ACORN’s alias con game for money and power

Did you notice? …when a Socialist ‘Brand’ gets in trouble, the Democrat Party throws that brand away by giving it an alias in the belief that American Voters are too stupid to know what is going on and what the Democrat Party is pulling.

Take the Socialists’ branding called ‘GLOBAL WARMING,’ as an example. The meme/brand became synonymous with lying about science in an attempt to hood wink the voters into looking favorably on the Socialists-Progressives ploy to tax the crap out of their energy consumption and build the size of government to create and enforce creeping control of their lives and their income.

So what did the Socialist-Progressives do? They changed GLOBAL WARMING to CLIMATE CHANGE. lol

Sorry Charlie… the meme is still GLOBAL WARMING and is still a branding albatross around your Marxist necks, dears! 😉

The examples of this goes on and on… heard about Obama re-branding the ‘War on Terror’ to  ‘Overseas Contingency Operation?’ That was the Socialist re-branding of a War which the Leftists politically attack while Conservatives are in power, then… give a pass to when Socialists-Progressives are in power.

So we come to the Democrat Party’s precious ACORN. The re-branding has started… ACORN has earned their reputation as a corrupt, illegal, radical leftist/Socialist/Marxist national political machine. In effect, it is the Democrat Party’s on-the-ground political Socialist Union and an essential arm of the Democrat Party.

Will the Democrat Party’s re-branding of ACORN work? Hardly… this is the age of the Blogosphere and conservative bloggers who bypass the Democrat Party’s propaganda spewing Lame Stream Media.

Conservative bloggers are busy connecting the Socialist dots and bringing the truth to Voting Americans such as this blogpost which reports the Democrat Party’s systematic and evasive dumping of the Brand Name called ACORN for its ACORN State Bases of Operations and creating aliases for them; an attempt to hide the fact they are still ACORN… still the same top down controlled Democrat Party’s Socialist political on-the-ground machine.

Law Enforcement has been well versed for centuries about the criminal tactic of creating aliases to allude detection and apprehension in order to continue their business as usual criminal activities. That the Democrat Party’s ACORN  attempts to create an illusion of ACORN evaporation …is a hopeless stunt.

Here are examples of ACORN Management’s futile ongoing efforts to hide itself in plain sight:

ACORN – New York: renamed as New York Communities for Change

ACORN – California: renamed as  ACCE, Alliance of Californians for Community Empowerment

More renaming is fourth coming… the Democrat Party is just getting started.

Why would the Democrat Party think the re-branding of its ACORN would be successful?

That depends on how you measure success.

The Democrat Party’s goal is gaining Federal Funding for its ACORN State Level Bases of Operation in order to carry on with their shady back-ally operations of assisting in the Fundamental Transformation of the United States of America into a Socialist country of their design and control.

Regardless of what Obama says his Presidential Job One De Jour happens to be on any given day (Creating Jobs – Job One, Defense of American Citizens – Job One, Economic Recovery – Job One) his actions and those of the Democrat Party are clear and transparent…

Fundamental Transformation of America
into a Socialist Country

With that said… Who are ACORN’s White Knights, to name a few?

  • President Barack Hussein Obama
  • US Attorney General Eric Holder
  • The Socialist-Progressive Lame Stream Media
  • The Democrat Party Bosses
  • George Soros
  • Congressional Socialists-Progressives

Remember Obama saying on camera that he was only vaguely familiar with ACORN, and it’s federally funded criminal activities, when the ACORN Scandal of 2009 came to a head?

Be careful of your web of lies, Obama, for the web of deceit you create becomes the trap in which you entangle yourself. Our voter memory is long, not short.


Additional Blogposts from VotingFemale:


Additional reading…

Le·gal In·sur·rec·tion: Obama’s Plan In Two Words and Does This Mean My House Never Will Be Waterfront? and Malmö Syndrome and Health Summit A Manufactured Political Crisis

HOT AiR: Philadelphia school uses laptops to spy on children at home and Obamateurism of the Day and Exclusive Hot Air interview: Inhofe to release report blasting IPCC on Climategate and Reid on why we need a jobs bill: “Men, when they’re out of work, tend to become abusive”


Heritage Foundry: Morning Bell: Can They Make Obamacare Worse? Yes They Can! and Hurting the U.S. in the “Muslim World”

BigGovernment: Health Care Freedom Act Featured at CPAC and Sunday Open Thread: Marx Edition and Thread: Ron Paul Wins CPAC Straw Poll and Thread: Glenn Beck Delivers Keynote Address to 2010 CPAC

HillBuzz: Thank you to the Ghost-to-Ghost Network

Gateway Pundit:
1 Dead, 1 Injured After Car Runs Gate at Luke Air Force Base and Obama Pushes Global Warming Climate Change Hoax in Nevada (Video) and Figures. White House Muslim Envoy Is a Radical, Too… Lied About Supporting Terror Suspect (Video) and Disgusting. Philly Abortion Doctor Displayed Fetuses In His Office in Jars and Newt Gingrich Bowls Over Bill O’Reilly: Obama Is a Socialist (Video)

Sister Toldjah: The last refuge of desperate politicos: “I was misled” and All you need to know about Obama’s new ‘healthcare reform’ proposal

Nice Deb: Video: Ann Coulter’s CPAC Speech and Video: Obama Again Claims The Science Is Settled On Global Warming

Frugal Café: Funniest Tweet I’ve Seen Today… Washington Post on Farts and Buck Passing 101: Obama, Then and Now… “Oldest Washington Stunt in the Book” (video) and ROFL: Lame White House “Photo of the Day”… Treas. Secretary Tim Geithner Grocery Shopping with Michelle Obama? and Showdown Time: Obama’s Health Care Plan… Congress, Like It or Lump It… 78% of American Voters Believe Health Costs Will Skyrocket and Sad: Samantha Bell: My Dad Joe Stack Is a Hero for His Anti-Government Plane Crash (video) – Update: Vernon Hunter, Vietnam Vet, Identified as Fatal Victim in IRS Building

Talk Wisdom: ObaMILLI and Stack Was a Domestic Terrorist and The Fraud Will Eventually Be Uncovered [Updates]

Michelle Malkin: The White House and pay-for-play and The $15B Porkulus II cloture roll call vote: Scott Brown, the Voinovich pay-off & business as usual and Biggest sign that White House deficit panel is a joke: O wants to appoint Andy Stern and CBO to White House: We can’t score your health care crap sandwich and The Zazi plea and the Patriot Act

Boudica BPI: Daily KOS, SEIU and others mobilizing behind Obamacare, we must fight back. Please pass on. and Mamabama song from Tim Wilson. Enjoy.

Good Time Politics: Los Angeles City Council voted Thursday to eliminate 4,000 municipal jobs and “I’ll do everything I can to give him the boot,” said Mayor Oscar Goodman

SamHenry’s Blog: Global Politics this Week – the Good, the Bad and the Downright Ugly and The Globalization of Bad Communication Precludes World Government and Is it High Noon with Iran? and Role of Media in Broken Government – CNN Poll on Tea Party Movement an Example

Dancing Czars:
Seven Muslims Charged with Illegal Export of Electronics to U.S.-Designated Terrorist Entity in Paraguay and Obama budget: Record spending, record deficit and Muslim Infiltration of Tea Party Events and Obama assisting in imposing Islamic Sharia law, prohibiting criticism of Islam and Exclusive: Statement From Rep. King on ACORN Collapse: Also ACORN changing names and When Keith Obermann at MS”LSD” is out Obermized by those who walk amongst us! LOL

About VotingFemale

I am a female voter, as my blog name implies. I vote for conservatives. I am a political opponent of Leftists, Progressives, Socialists, Marxists, and Communists.
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263 Responses to ACORN’s alias con game for money and power

  1. Great blog. Truly, the Obama way is to say one thing that seems moderate, but then drive hard for extreme Leftism. His power is the abiding and “tingle up my leg” mass media, that refuses to report the truth about his radical past.

    ACORN is just another method that the Left can use to destroy America, piece by piece. Add in George Soros and Al Gore, and you have what appears to be an actual attempt to subvert our country into ruin.

    But, just like Tony Montana would call them, “Cock-a-Roaches!”, these thugs and Leftists scatter when light is shined on their innermost operations.

    Let’s turn on the light.

  2. Foxwood says:

    The BIG LIE! Clinton was impeached for lying. Shouldn’t we impeach Obutthole?

  3. m2 says:

    LOL “communities for change” and “alliance” ???

    They better start coming up with more creative and less cliche Leftists PC terms cause now that we know the cockroaches scurry when
    the light flicks on, well they can run but they can’t hide with names like “Change”…

    Again thank you Obama for shining a light on the vileness of “community” “organizers” (well for participating in the vile corruption), and then letting the world know what you all stand for!

    VF, you should check out the glossary link samiam posted on your past blog…

  4. m2 says:

    Be careful of your web of lies, Obama, for the web of deceit you create becomes the trap in which you entangle yourself. Our voter memory is long, not short.

    And! We have You-tube!!!! No one can hide anymore… With a free open net. No wonder Obama (Rockefeller/ RINO Snowe) want to “regulate” it.


  5. Pingback: Bill O’Reilly: Is Barack Obama a Socialist? (video) « Frugal Café Blog Zone

  6. tellitlikeitis says:

    Good afternoon everyone!

    Climategate Meets the Law: Senator Inhofe To Ask for DOJ Investigation

    Senator James Inhofe (R-OK) today asked the Obama administration to investigate what he called “the greatest scientific scandal of our generation” — the actions of climate scientists revealed by the Climategate Files, and the subsequent admissions by the editors of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Fourth Assessment Report (AR4).

    Senator Inhofe also called for former Vice President Al Gore to be called back to the Senate to testify.

    “In [Gore’s] science fiction movie, every assertion has been rebutted,” Inhofe said. He believes Vice President Gore should defend himself and his movie before Congress.

    Just prior to a hearing at 10:00 a.m. EST, Senator Inhofe released a minority staff report from the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee, of which he is ranking member. Senator Inhofe is asking the Department of Justice to investigate whether there has been research misconduct or criminal actions by the scientists involved, including Dr. Michael Mann of Pennsylvania State University and Dr. James Hansen of Columbia University and the NASA Goddard Institute of Space Science.

    This report, obtained exclusively by Pajamas Media before today’s hearing, alleges:

    [The] Minority Staff of the Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works believe the scientists involved may have violated fundamental ethical principles governing taxpayer-funded research and, in some cases, federal laws. In addition to these findings, we believe the emails and accompanying documents seriously compromise the IPCC -backed “consensus” and its central conclusion that anthropogenic emissions are inexorably leading to environmental catastrophes.

    As has been reported here at Pajamas Media over the last several months, the exposure of the Climategate Files has led to a re-examination of the IPCC Assessment Reports, especially the fourth report (AR4), published in 2007. The IPCC AR4 report was named by Environmental Protection Agency head Lisa Jackson as one of the major sources of scientific support for the agency’s Endangerment Finding, the first step towards allowing the EPA to regulate carbon dioxide as a pollutant.

    Since the Climategate Files were released, the IPCC has been forced to retract a number of specific conclusions — such as a prediction that Himalayan glaciers would disappear by 2035 — and has been forced to confirm that the report was based in large part on reports from environmental activist groups instead of peer-reviewed scientific literature. Dr. Murari Lal, an editor of the IPCC AR4 report, admitted to the London Daily Mail that he had known the 2035 date was false, but was included in the report anyway “purely to put political pressure on world leaders.”

    Based on this Minority Staff report, Senator Inhofe will be calling for an investigation into potential research misconduct and possible criminal acts by the researchers involved. At the same time, Inhofe will ask the Environmental Protection Agency to reopen its consideration of an Endangerment Finding for carbon dioxide as a pollutant under the Federal Clean Air Act, and will ask Congress to withdraw funding for further consideration of carbon dioxide as a pollutant.

    In requesting that the EPA reopen the Endangerment Finding, Inhofe joins with firms such as the Peabody Energy Company and several state Attorneys General (such as Texas and Virginia) in objecting to the Obama administration’s attempt to extend regulatory control over carbon dioxide emissions in the United States. Senator Inhofe believes this staff report “strengthens the case” for the Texas and Virginia Attorneys General.

    Senator Inhofe’s announcement today appears to be the first time a member of Congress has formally called for an investigation into research misconduct and potential criminal acts by the scientists involved.

  7. Foxwood says:

    “Senator Inhofe also called for former Vice President Al Gore to be called back to the Senate to testify”

    This has to be televised!

  8. Foxwood says:

    Good morning Tellit!

    Did you see the tea party vid?

  9. m2 says:

    The Dept. Of Jokes- investigate something that is not politically opportune for them, yeah right!

  10. Foxwood says:

    More Climate Crap From:

    New Climate Agency Head Tried to Suppress Data, Critics Charge

    By Ed Barnes


    Thomas Karl, the head of Obama’s new Climate Change office has been criticized for trying to suppress contradictory scientific data on climate change.


    Thomas Karl, the newly appointed head of the National Climatic Data Center.

    The scientist who has been put in charge of the Commerce Department’s new climate change office is coming under attack from both sides of the global warming debate over his handling of what they say is contradictory scientific data related to the subject.

    Thomas Karl, 58, was appointed to oversee the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s (NOAA) National Climatic Data Center, an ambitious new office that will collect climate change data and disseminate it to businesses and communities.

    According to Commerce Secretary Gary Locke, the office will “help tackle head-on the challenges of mitigating and adapting to climate change. In the process, we’ll discover new technologies, build new businesses and create new jobs.”

    Karl, who has played a pivotal role in key climate decisions over the past decade, has kept a low profile as director of National Climatic Data Center (NCDC) since 1998, and he has led all of the NOAA climate services since 2009. His name surfaced numerous times in leaked “climate-gate” e-mails from the University of East Anglia, but there was little in the e-mails that tied him to playing politics with climate data. Mostly, the e-mails show he was in the center of the politics of climate change decisions

    According to a school biography published by Northern Illinois University, Karl shared the Nobel Peace Prize with Al Gore and other leading scientists based on his work at the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), and he was “one of the 10 most influential researchers of the 1990s who have formed or changed the course of research in a given area.”
    related links

    Top U.N. Climate Official Yvo de Boer Resigning

    Global Warming in Last 15 Years Insignificant, U.K.’s Top Climate Scientist Admits

    Global Warming Skeptics Lambaste Plan to Increase Funding for Climate Change Research

    His appointment was hailed by both the Sierra Club and Duke Energy Company of North Carolina. Sierra Club President Carl Pope said, “As polluters and their allies continue to try to muddy the waters around climate science, the Climate Service will provide easy, direct access to the valuable scientific research undertaken by government scientists and others.” And Duke Energy CEO Jin Rogers said the new office, under Karl, will “spark the consensus we need to move forward.”

    But Roger Pielke Sr., a climatologist affiliated with the University of Colorado who has crossed horns with Karl in the past, says his appointment was a mistake. He accused Karl of suppressing data he submitted for the IPCC’s most recent report on climate change and having a very narrow view of its causes.

    The IPCC is charged with reviewing scientific data on climate change and providing policy makers and others with an assessment of current knowledge.

    Pielke said he agrees that global warming is happening and that man plays a significant role in it, but he said there are many factors in addition to the release of carbon into the atmosphere that need to be studied to fully understand the phenomenon. He said he resigned from the IPCC in August 2005 because his data, and the work of numerous other scientists, were not included in its most recent report.

    In his resignation letter, Pielke wrote that he had completed the assessment of current knowledge for his chapter of the report, when Karl abruptly took control of the final draft. He said the chapter he had nearly completed was then rewritten with a too-narrow focus.

    One of the key areas of dispute, he said, was in describing “recent regional trends in surface and tropospheric temperatures,” and the impact of land use on temperatures. It is the interpretation of this data on which the intellectual basis of the idea of global warming hangs.

    In an interview, Pielke reiterated that Karl “has actively opposed views different from his own.” And on his Web site last week, he said Karl’s appointment “assures that policy makers will continue to receive an inappropriately narrow view of our actual knowledge with respect to climate science.”

    He said the people who run the agencies in charge of climate monitoring are too narrowly focused, and he worries that the creation of the new office “would give the same small group of people the chance to speak on the issue and exclude others” whose views might diverge from theirs.

    Responding to the criticism, Karl told the Washington Post, “the literature doesn’t show [Pielke’s] ideas about the importance of land use are correct.”

    Calls to The Commerce Department and to Karl’s office went unanswered.

    The IPCC in recent weeks has come under severe criticism after e-mails, hacked from a prestigious climate center, revealed some of the political infighting that occurred as its assessments were being put together and called into question its impartiality.

    Climate change skeptics, meanwhile, say Karl’s appointment was unnecessary and pulls scarce resources from more pressing needs.

    “The unconstitutional global warming office and its new Web site would be charged with propagandizing Americans with eco-alarmism,” wrote Alex Newman of the Liberty Sentinel of Gainesville, Fla.

    On the popular skeptic site “Watts Up With That,” Anthony Watts called the site a “waste of more taxpayer money” and charged that it is nothing more than a “fast track press release service.” He wrote that putting Karl in charge was an issue, because he had fabricated photos of “floods that didn’t happen” in an earlier NOAA report.

  11. m2 says:

    I saw the vid Fox. It just reminded me that time when even President Obama “wasn’t black during the SOTU” for Chris Matthews.

    What a bunch of pea brains…

  12. Foxwood says:

    And more Climate Crap From:

    Updated February 22, 2010
    Scientists Retract Paper on Rising Sea Levels Due to Errors

    Scientists have been forced to retract a paper that claimed sea level were rising thanks to the effects of global warming, after mistakes were discovered that undermined the results.


    In a NASA “what-if” animation, light-blue areas in southern Florida and Louisiana indicate regions that may be underwater should sea levels rise dramatically — which may not be as likely as scientists once thought.

    Scientists have been forced to retract a paper that claimed sea level were rising thanks to the effects of global warming, after mistakes were discovered that undermined the results.

    The study was published in Nature Geoscience and predicted that sea levels would rise by as much as 2.7 feet by the end of the twenty-first century.

    The paper also highlighted that it reinforced the conclusions of the U.N.’s controversial Fourth Assessment report, which warned of the dangerous of man-made climate change.

    However, mistakes in time intervals and inaccurately applied statistics have forced the authors to retract their paper — the first official retraction ever for the three-year-old journal, notes the Guardian. In an officially published retraction of their paper, the authors acknowledged these mistakes as factors that compromised the results.

    “We no longer have confidence in our projections for the twentieth and twenty-first centuries, and for this reason the authors retract the results pertaining to sea-level rise after 1900,” wrote authors Mark Siddall, Thomas Stocker and Peter Clark.

    Since the leak of e-mails from the U.K.’s top global warming scientists in early December, many other errors and sloppy mistakes have been uncovered in leading report by the U.N.’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). Flaws in weather stations have led some to question claims of rising temperatures, sloppy math led to holes in postulates that the Himalayas were rapidly melting and fears of a man-made food shortage in Africa seem unsubstantiated as well.

    Announcing the formal retraction of the paper from the journal, Siddall told the Guardian,, “It’s one of those things that happens. People make mistakes and mistakes happen in science.” A formal retraction was required, rather than a correction, because the errors undermined the study’s conclusion.

    “Retraction is a regular part of the publication process,” he said. “Science is a complicated game and there are set procedures in place that act as checks and balances.”

  13. Foxwood says:

    M2, That vid hit them hard! I love it.

  14. m2 says:

    “oh uhhrrr… I almost forgot he was black!”
    -Chris Matthews, Leftist Media Commenter

  15. m2 says:

    Fox, what sad is Olbermann, Couric, Matthews, and Jon Stewart are the “best” they have to offer.


  16. m2 says:

    I miss Tim Russert. A real Democratic-American. RIP.

  17. m2 says:

    I haven’t seen ya in awhile tellit- how’s your hip?

  18. Foxwood says:

    What’s sadder is that most youth think Jon Stewart is “real” news.

  19. tellitlikeitis says:

    Hello m2 and foxwood, My hip is getting better everyday. I have really put it to the test shoveling all the snow a few weeks ago. Thanks for asking.

  20. m2 says:

    Here’s another ACORN:
    New England United for “Justice”


  21. m2 says:

    Jon Stewart was exosed as the dummy dum-dum comedian he is on O’Reilly a few weeks ago.

    He’s just…. Well, what O’Reilly said.
    Nail on the head.
    “news for the Obama loving stoner crowd” …

  22. Foxwood says:


    Justice for who? New England United for “Just Us”?

  23. m2 says:

    That’s why this blog post is so brilliant-

    “justice, change, community, alliance, progress, open, etc etc” all = unions or Leftist organizations in for a taxpayer payday, … nothing more.

  24. Foxwood says:

    Speaking of Brilliant… Where is our beloved leader?

  25. m2 says:

    Rush is so great (right now)- well I got errands, maybe Ill catch VF on laters…

  26. ohiobelle says:

    Hello everybody!!

    I just love this video. Reid probably won’t want a man with “negro dialect” to campaign on his behalf… lol

  27. Foxwood says:

    Morning Belle!

    Id doesn’t surprise me that the Teachers Unions are involved.

  28. Foxwood says:


    You cause this problem!

  29. ohiobelle says:

    Hello Fox.

    I was just reading this article. It really ticks me off that we are paying for illegal immigrants to have their babies born in the US. It is almost impossible for a US citizen to get insurance if she is pregnant.

    On the heels of a federal crackdown, lawmakers in Nebraska are scrambling to pass legislation that will allow pregnant illegal immigrant women to continue receiving free, taxpayer-financed medical care.

    The state has for decades offered the costly perk to pregnant illegal aliens, whose “anchor babies” are automatically United States citizens. However, the federal government recently notified the state that it was illegally determining eligibility for publicly-funded medical care known as Medicaid.

    Nebraska has skirted federal guidelines by using the illegal immigrants’ yet-to-be-born children to qualify for the medical care otherwise not available to undocumented aliens. Nebraska women who are legal U.S. residents will continue receiving Medicaid, the state-federal insurance program for the poor, once the state follows the federal guidelines but illegal immigrants won’t.

    As the cutoff date approaches, legislators in the Cornhusker State are frantically working to pass a law that will allow the state’s estimated 1,000 pregnant illegal immigrants to keep their public medical coverage. The deadline is in early March and a state senator from Lincoln, Kathy Campbell, has introduced a measure to create a new program—funded by both the state and the federal government—aimed at restoring the coverage for illegal immigrants.

    Nebraska Hustles To Keep Illegal Alien Medical Coverage

    Under the proposed law, Nebraska will create a special standalone program under an existing federal children’s insurance plan that will allow the illegal alien mothers to receive prenatal-care coverage similar to when the state violated federal Medicaid rules. Of course, U.S. taxpayers will fund the project.

    At least one Nebraska senator, John Nelson, questioned the measure’s fiscal impact and wondered if the state provides care for those here illegally, how many more will come to Nebraska to take advantage of the program. Another senator (Charlie Jansen) pointed out that illegal immigrants will continue using state benefits until the problem is addressed by lawmakers.

    Fourteen states—including California, New York and Texas—already have similar programs that provide illegal immigrants with free government-funded medical care when they are pregnant. Once their anchor babies are born, the family receives a plethora of public assistance including food stamps and monthly welfare checks.

  30. ohiobelle says:

    Hearing Reid talk about abuse makes me sick! He is creating another crisis for some new funding he is trying to get.

  31. Foxwood says:

    And we wonder why we have a deficit…

  32. ohiobelle says:

    Fox wrote: And we wonder why we have a deficit…

    I don’t think anybody has to wonder anymore.

  33. Foxwood says:

    Article 1 section 2 states:

    (Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.)

    The Regressive Liberal translation/bastardization of this means that ILLEGAL aliens are counted in the census.

  34. Foxwood says:

    Of the Constitution, I should say…

  35. Foxwood says:

    I’ll be getting more global warming white stuff tonight.


  36. ohiobelle says:

    Fox, that is bullshit!!!!! UGH!!

    I’ve been reading this…

    Judicial Watch Sues for Records on “Climate Czar” Carol Browner’s Role in Crafting Policy

    Judicial Watch, the public interest group that investigates and prosecutes government corruption, announced today that it filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit against the Department of Energy and Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to obtain documents related to President Obama’s Special Assistant on Energy and Climate Carol Browner and her role in crafting official U.S. climate policy. Ms. Browner, who was never subjected to Senate confirmation, reportedly served as the Obama administration’s point person in secret negotiations to establish automobile emission standards and also participated in negotiations involving cap and trade legislation.

    Through its FOIA requests, filed on December 28, 2009, Judicial Watch specifically seeks all records of communications, contacts, or correspondence between Browner and the EPA or Energy Department concerning:

    A. Negotiations and/or discussions among the auto industry, the State of California, and agencies of the United States with respect to fuel-standards/auto emissions for the time period between January 20, 2009 and June 1, 2009; and

    B. Negotiations/discussions with respect to cap and trade legislation for the time period between June 1, 2009 and October 1, 2009.

    EPA had failed to respond to these requests in any matter. Subsequent to filing its lawsuit on February 18, Judicial Watch received a letter from the Energy Department (dated February 17) in which the agency denied that it had any documents responsive to Judicial Watch’s FOIA requests.

    According to press reports, Ms. Browner instructed individuals involved in auto emissions negotiations to “put nothing in writing, ever.” The New York Times reported that Browner made every effort to “keep their discussions as quiet as possible.”

    Judicial Watch’s FOIA requests involving Ms. Browner are part of a large-scale investigation of President Obama’s so-called “czars” — especially those who have not been subject to the Senate confirmation process but who nonetheless seem to exercise authority in a way that raises constitutional questions. Judicial Watch has filed a FOIA request with the Office of Management and Budget as well as requests with each separate “czar” office as part of its investigation.

    “Here we have an Obama administration ‘czar’ conducting secret meetings and instructing participants to avoid producing a written record. This is the perfect storm for corruption: concentrated executive power with no congressional oversight and no transparency,” said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. “This stonewall on the ‘Climate Czar’ documents seems yet another chapter in the Climategate scandal.”

  37. Foxwood says:

    Fox News Radio
    Tea Party candidate in Nevada is a Harry Read plant designed to split the Conservative vote and keep Reid in office!

  38. ohiobelle says:

    I just heard on Fox that Wall St bonuses were up by 17% in 2009. I am really pissed off!!! I feel like I lost my career of 18 years so Wall St could get bigger bonuses!!

  39. ohiobelle says:

    Fox, I wouldn’t put it past them to keep Reid in office!! THEY ARE ALL THUGS!!!

    Congressman Joe Sestak said in a television news show that the White House offered him a top federal job in an effort to keep him from challenging Senator Arlen Specter in the state’s Democratic primary. A five-term incumbent, Specter switched from Republican to Democrat last spring after giving Obama the critical vote for his disastrous and fraud-infested $787 billion stimulus program.

  40. ohiobelle says:

    Disastrous and fraud-infested $787 billion stimulus program aka, Porkapolis!!!

  41. ohiobelle says:

    I’ve got to run for a bit.

    I’ll be back later.

  42. Foxwood says:

    New Tea Party in Nevada

    New party brings its own ‘tea’ to election

    Movement founders suspect Reid scheme

    * Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is a scrappy campaigner facing a tough battle for re-election, but a newspaper columnist says he has “nothing to do” with forming a Nevada Tea Party to divide votes of opposition. (Associated Press)

    By Valerie Richardson

    Is the Nevada Tea Party and its newly minted third-party status for real?

    Critics say the party, which already has a candidate for Senate, doesn’t have any connection to the state’s “tea party” movement and looks like an attempt to draw votes from Republicans, thereby aiding embattled Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid in his re-election bid.

    The party filed a constitution, bylaws and list of officers Jan. 28 with the Nevada secretary of state’s office. The party also has collected the 250 signatures necessary to place Jon Ashjian on the November ballot as a candidate for the seat now held by Mr. Reid, said Nevada secretary of state spokeswoman Pam duPre.

    All this came as a shock to Frank Ricotta, a Las Vegas pharmacist and one of the founding members of the state’s tea party movement. Not only was he unaware of any plans to form a third party, he also didn’t know any of the 10 people on the party’s executive committee.

    “I talked to some of our people in the north, and none of us recognized any of the names on the filing,” said Mr. Ricotta, whose group Nevada Patriots is part of the Nevada Leaders Coalition, a tea party movement umbrella group.

    “We never heard anything about it and the names are totally foreign to everyone I’ve spoken to, and I probably know everyone involved in the tea party in Nevada, and certainly in Clark County,” said Mr. Ricotta. “So we are very concerned about what this Tea Party is, who’s behind it, and what is their purpose.”

    Republicans have their own theory about the party’s purpose: to boost Mr. Reid’s chances in November by drawing votes from the Republican candidate who emerges from its June primary.

    Polls show Mr. Reid, a Democrat, trailing the leading Republican candidates, former state Sen. Sue Lowden and small-business owner Danny Tarkanian, by about 10 percentage points in head-to-head matchups. Only about a third of Nevada voters view the four-term incumbent favorably, while more than half view him unfavorably, according to a recent Research 2000 survey.

    Even so, Mr. Reid is known as a scrappy campaigner who’s all but certain to have the financial edge. In a tight contest, a Tea Party candidate who wins even 3 percent to 4 percent of the vote could tip the race to the Democrat.

    “I think this is just an attempt, a blatant attempt, to split up the tea party [movement] vote, and if they really believe these people are that stupid, good luck,” said Bob Ruckman, Clark County Republican Party chairman.

  43. Foxwood says:

    Can we call them the party of Dirty Tricks?

  44. Foxwood says:

    The party of do whatever it take to stay in power?

  45. dancingczars says:

    This entire scam will be shut down during the next administration. The FBI will investigate, something the Obama/Holder Injustice Department can’t handle. They are too busy investigating the CIA, enhanced interrogation and civilian trials for terrorists, that they are incapable of doing the job. Shall we say they have Cloward and Pivened themselves> LOL

  46. Foxwood says:

    How about the party of liers and cheaters?

  47. ohiobelle says:

    The All Barack Channel known as ABC is eliminating 300-400 jobs. Maybe now Obama will focus on the economy!! We certainly don’t want anything to happen to HIS station.

    Off to workout. Check back later.

  48. tellitlikeitis says:

    US Jan mass layoffs edge up on weak manufacturing
    Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:34am ESTRelated NewsJobless claims drop; White House sees job growth
    Thu, Feb 11 2010Jobless rate hits 5-month low but payrolls fall
    Fri, Feb 5 2010Jobless rate hits 5-month low but payrolls fall
    Fri, Feb 5 2010WRAPUP 7-US jobless rate hits 5-month low but payrolls fall
    Fri, Feb 5 2010U.S. mass layoffs fall again in December – Labor
    Wed, Jan 27 2010WASHINGTON, Feb 23 (Reuters) – The number of mass layoffs by U.S. employers edged up in January as manufacturers stepped up job cuts, data showed on Tuesday, but probably not enough to alter views that the economy is on the brink of creating jobs.

    The Labor Department said the number of mass layoff actions — defined as job cuts involving at least 50 people from a single employer — increased by 35 to 1,761. Mass layoffs had trended lower since August.

    A total of 182,261 workers were affected last month. In January, 486 mass layoff events were reported in manufacturing, resulting in 62,556 workers filing claims for state unemployment benefits. It was the first increase in mass layoffs in manufacturing since August.

    The labor market is lagging the broader economic recovery that started in the second half of 2009. Since December 2007, when the worst recession in 70 years started, the U.S. economy has shed 8.4 million jobs.

    Payrolls have declined every month since then except for last November when they increased by 64,000. Economists reckon the economy is a few months away from creating jobs.

    Employers last month cut 20,000 jobs after laying off 150,000 workers in December, while the unemployment rate fell to 9.7 percent from 10 percent.

    In the 26 months to January, a total 53,739 mass layoff events were effected and involved 5,425,101 workers, the Labor Department said.

  49. Foxwood says:

    Did you hear about the Tea Party in Nevada, Tellit?

  50. tellitlikeitis says:

    Harvard’s Rogoff Sees Sovereign Defaults, ‘Painful’ Austerity

    Feb. 24 (Bloomberg) — Ballooning debt is likely to force several countries to default and the U.S. to cut spending, according to Harvard University Professor Kenneth Rogoff, who in 2008 predicted the failure of big American banks.

    Following banking crises, “we usually see a bunch of sovereign defaults, say in a few years,” Rogoff, a former chief economist at the International Monetary Fund, said at a forum in Tokyo yesterday. “I predict we will again.”

    The U.S. is likely to tighten monetary policy before cutting government spending, sending “shockwaves” through financial markets, Rogoff said in an interview after the speech. Fiscal policy won’t be curbed until soaring bond yields trigger “very painful” tax increases and spending cuts, he said.

    Global scrutiny of sovereign debt has risen after budget shortfalls of countries including Greece swelled in the wake of the worst global financial meltdown since the 1930s. The U.S. is facing an unprecedented $1.6 trillion budget deficit in the year ending Sept. 30, the government has forecast.

    “Most countries have reached a point where it would be much wiser to phase out fiscal stimulus,” said Rogoff, who co- wrote a history of financial crises published in 2009. It would be better “to keep monetary policy soft and start gradually tightening fiscal policy even if it meant some inflation.”

    Failed Marriage

    Rogoff, 56, said he expects Greece will eventually be bailed out by the IMF rather than the European Union. Greece will probably announce an austerity program “in a few weeks” that will prompt the EU to provide a bridge loan which won’t be enough to save the country in the long run, he said.

    “It’s like two people getting married and saying therefore they’re living happily ever after,” said Rogoff. “I don’t think Europe’s going to succeed.”

    Investors will eventually demand higher interest rates to lend to countries around the world that have accumulated debt, including the U.S., he said. The IMF forecast in November that gross U.S. borrowings will amount to the equivalent of 99.5 percent of annual economic output in 2011. The U.K.’s will reach 94.1 percent and Japan’s will spiral to 204.3 percent.

    “In rich countries — Germany, the United States and maybe Japan — we are going to see slow growth. They will tighten their belts when the problem hits with interest rates,” Rogoff said at the forum, which was hosted by CLSA Asia-Pacific Markets, a unit of Credit Agricole SA, France’s largest retail bank. Japanese fiscal policy is “out of control,” he said.

    Euro Concerns

    So far concerns about the euro zone’s ability to withstand the deteriorating finances of its member nations have outweighed the U.S.’s deficit woes, propping up the dollar.

    “The more they suck in Greece, the lower the euro goes, because it’s not a viable plan,” Rogoff said. “Clearly the dollar is going to go down against the emerging markets — there’s going to be concern about inflation and the debt.”

    The dollar has surged more than 9 percent against the euro in the past three months. Ten-year Treasuries yielded 3.72 percent as of 10:16 a.m. in New York.

    The U.S. government will delay any efforts to contain the deficit until Treasury yields reach around 6 percent to 7 percent, Rogoff said.

    “The U.S. is in a state of paralysis in its fiscal policy,” he said. “Monetary policy will tighten first, and I don’t think it’s the right mix.”

    Fed Exit

    The Federal Reserve last week raised the discount rate charged to banks for direct loans, and plans to end its $1.25 trillion purchases of mortgage-backed securities in March. President Barack Obama’s administration is proposing a $3.8 trillion budget for fiscal 2011 to spur the recovery.

    “When they start tightening monetary policy even a little bit, it’s going to send shockwaves through the system,” Rogoff said.

    In an interview a month before Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. went bankrupt in 2008, Rogoff said “the worst is yet to come in the U.S.” and predicted the collapse of “major” investment banks. His 2009 book “This Time Is Different,” co- written with Carmen M. Reinhart, charts the history of financial crises in 66 countries.

    “We almost always have sovereign risk crises in the wake of an international banking crisis, usually in a few years, and that’s happening,” he said. “Greece is just the beginning.”

    Greece’s debt totaled 298.5 billion euros ($405 billion) at the end of 2009, according to the Finance Ministry. That’s more than five times more than Russia owed when it defaulted in 1998 and Argentina when it missed payments in 2001.

    The cost of protecting Greek bonds from default surged in January, then declined this month as concern eased over the country’s creditworthiness. Credit-default swaps on Greek sovereign debt have fallen to 356 basis points from 428 last month, according to CMA DataVision. That’s up from 171 at the start of December.

    “Greece just highlights that one of those risks is sovereign default,” said Naomi Fink, a strategist at Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ Ltd. Still, “it doesn’t justify the situation where we’re all in a panic and are going back to cash in the post-Lehman shock.”

  51. tellitlikeitis says:

    Foxwood, no, I didn’t hear about it.

  52. tellitlikeitis says:

    Foxwood, thanks for the link

  53. ohiobelle says:

    The company doing the repairs on my house just stopped by to look at the second ice dam damage… I didn’t take it as a good sign when he just shook his head.

  54. Foxwood says:

    Who’s set up to win if the EU, the US, and possibly China’s economies fail?

  55. Foxwood says:

    I guessing Soros and possibly the UN.

  56. ohiobelle says:

    Fox wrote: Who’s set up to win if the EU, the US, and possibly China’s economies fail?

    Is that a trick question?

  57. Foxwood says:

    We have tin roofs in the south. I don’t know how that works up north.

  58. tellitlikeitis says:

  59. tellitlikeitis says:

    Flagging confidence intensifies economic fears
    Confidence falls unexpectedly in February as consumers’ worries about jobs escalate

    NEW YORK (AP) — Americans’ confidence in the economy has suffered a sudden relapse, dimming hopes that they will start spending — and spurring job growth — any time soon.

    The Consumer Confidence Index figures released Tuesday were much worse than analysts had expected and showed that Americans are morose about the job market and their economic prospects. That bodes ill for the sort of uptick in consumer spending that normally powers job growth, and could raise pressure on the Obama administration and Congress to create jobs themselves.

    The index fell almost 11 points to 46 in February, down from a revised 56.5 in January and the lowest level since a 40.8 reading in April 2009. It erased three consecutive months of improvement, according to the Conference Board, the research group that releases the monthly index.

    Analysts were expecting only a slight decrease to 55. Economists watch the confidence numbers closely because consumer spending accounts for about 70 percent of U.S. economic activity.

    Outside of the Great Recession, the index hasn’t been this low since December 1974.

    “It still feels like a recession,” said Lynn Franco, director of the Conference Board Consumer Research Center.

    Confidence has been recovering fitfully since hitting a historic low of 25.3 in February 2009. Many economists believe it will remain well below healthy levels for at least another year or two. A reading above 90 indicates an economy is on solid footing. Above 100 signals strong growth.

    Dana Huskey of Chattanooga, Tenn., said she’s being very cautious with her spending — limiting her trips out to eat and her drives around town. The 26-year-old lost her job at Ann Taylor in July and has lined up a job at a yarn store, but it won’t open until this summer. Her family has been helping her since then.

    “I try not to go out to eat unless I have to,” said Huskey. “I got a subscription to the local paper for the weekend edition, to do coupons.”

    Some economists say Americans won’t start to feel better and spend more until they see clear evidence of sizable job growth. In past recessions, however, the employment picture didn’t improve dramatically until after a recovery in consumer spending and confidence.

    Many economists say business investments and exports can help drive the nascent turnaround in the short term, but a rise in consumer spending is essential to keep it going.

    “Without a sustained acceleration in consumption growth, this recovery will eventually fade,” said Paul Ashworth, senior U.S. economist at Capital Economics Ltd.

    The consumer confidence report put a scare into the stock market, overshadowing retailers’ reports that showed stronger holiday profits but also offered cautious sales outlooks. There were also signs that the U.S. housing market is continuing its bumpy recovery: A key index showed home prices rose for the seventh straight month in December.

    Executives at discount chain Target Corp. said they expect the recovery to continue — slowly — as shoppers grapple with high rates of unemployment and pay down debt.

    “I think we’re going to see two steps forward, one step back,” said Gregg Steinhafel, Target’s chairman, president and CEO, in a conference call with investors Tuesday.

    The Dow Jones industrials were off more than 90 points. Interest rates also fell as investors moved money out of stocks and into the safety of Treasury bonds.

    The confidence index is based on a sample of 5,000 U.S. households surveyed between Feb. 1 and Feb. 17.

    A surprising aspect of the report was that the index’s key gauge — consumers’ expectations over the next six months — took a big hit. The gauge had been on the rise since last October. Consumers’ assessment of the current economy slipped to a 27-year low.

    Several factors may have aggravated the decline. Heavy snowstorms in many areas of the country may have dampened confidence as they shut down businesses and thwarted job searches. Worries about Greece’s national debt hammered the U.S. stock market.

    The unemployment picture has become a full-time preoccupation in Congress. The Senate cleared a key hurdle Monday on its way to passing a $15 billion package that includes tax breaks to encourage hiring. Final passage on that measure is scheduled for Wednesday. The measure, however, is likely to boost hiring only modestly.

    A second measure for broader and longer-term assistance was under discussion as well. Such a package could include a full-year extension of unemployment insurance and a 65 percent health insurance subsidy for the unemployed through the federal COBRA program. States could also get direct assistance to help them with their straining Medicaid budget.

    The overall economy expanded at an annual rate of 5.7 percent in the fourth quarter, but only about one-fourth of that growth came from consumers. Most of the growth came from companies replenishing low inventories.

    For those out of work, the economy’s recent improvement has been invisible.

    “The jobs aren’t coming fast enough,” said Jim Fox, who was laid off from a steel mill in Sharon, Pa., last August. “The jobs that I do see pay less than what I was making.”

    Many economists expect new jobs to be created in coming months. Unemployment fell to 9.7 percent in January from 10 percent in December, and employers shed 20,000 jobs. Economists believe the unemployment rate fell because many unemployed people gave up on their job searches, and worry that it will climb back up by summer as those without jobs start trying again.

    Gary Thayer, chief economist at Wells Fargo Advisors, believes big improvements in jobs, confidence and spending will be “marching together.”

    “This is going to be a year when people are waiting to see what happens rather than assuming the best going forward,” he said.

  60. Pingback: US Consumers Now Spend Less. Jobs Too Little, Too Late « ON MY WATCH – the writings of SamHenry

  61. Foxwood says:

    Yeah, we don’t get too many cats on the roof… 🙂

  62. Foxwood says:

    I’m not going to ask Belle, she hates me… 🙂 How’s your job working out, Tellit?

  63. ohiobelle says:

    I am wondering why they would assume car thieves?? How many car thieves stake out a military base??


    One person is dead after he and another suspect led police on a chase onto Luke Air Force Base, police said. According to Captain Jerry Gonzalez, the suspects, while trying to ditch police, drove to Luke Air Force Base and went through one of the security gates.

    A security forces officer reportedly confronted two men inside the car, previously reported stolen, said Officer Karen Gerardo, the public information officer at the Glendale Police Department.

    When the officer got out of his car to try to make contact with the two men, the car drove directly at him. The officer shot at the car, which then crashed, said Gerardo.

    Investigators do not suspect terrorism, said Gerardo. They don’t believe the men were anything other than car thieves, said Gonzales.

  64. Foxwood says:

    I know you don’t hate me, Belle!

  65. ohiobelle says:

    fOX WROTE: I’m not going to ask Belle, she hates me… How’s your job working out, Tellit?


  66. ohiobelle says:

    Tellit, Did you find a new job?

  67. ohiobelle says:

    I’ve got to get dinner ready. I’ll check back later.

  68. tellitlikeitis says:

    I have no job yet. Still looking. Thanks for asking.

  69. tellitlikeitis says:

    Here’s a song for all the hard working American chumps that work for a living.

  70. Foxwood says:

    ZZs one of my favorites. They live just across the border from me. Sometimes they come over to Lake Charles and eat at Steamboat Bill’s. If the Limo is there, you can bet ZZ is also.

  71. Foxwood says:

    WHOA! I think the scaffolding just fell from my house!!! BRB!

  72. Foxwood says:

    Not the scaffolding, not thunder… What the hell was it? It was loud and shook the house.

  73. samhenry says:

    Good evening all – I guess my comment did not post.

    RE Tin Roofs – they were used on barns for years – centuries in fact here. Now they are again popular on homes. They are making them even more attractive. I am thinking of one if my roof needs replacing. They are a good deal.

  74. samhenry says:

    FOX – could it have been a jet breaking the sound barrier?
    OR could God have put his foot down – Obama has gone too far?

  75. Foxwood says:

    I live on a gas bulge. That’s always a scary thought.

  76. Foxwood says:

    Yeah, one of these days one of my cannon shots will be heard nation wide.

  77. tellitlikeitis says:

    This is what happens when you become a drugged out tramp.

    Whitney Houston’s ‘croaky’ and ‘disorientated’ performance disappoints fans Down Under
    By Donna Mcconnell
    Last updated at 3:50 PM on 23rd February 2010
    Comments (41) Videos Add to My Stories Whitney Houston’s Australian comeback is under fire after fans criticised the opening night of her Australian tour claiming the singer sounded ‘croaky and appeared ‘disorientated’.

    The American star struggled through the opening night of her first Australian tour since 1988, and was left breathless and exhausted after just two songs at her show at the Brisbane Entertainment Centre, it was claimed.

    And even more bizarrely, the 46-year-old took a 20 minute break to catch her breath mid-way through the show.

    Read more:

  78. Foxwood says:

    Damn. She was a beautiful singer too…

  79. tellitlikeitis says:

  80. tellitlikeitis says:

    How sad. What a disgrace. A terrible way to go out.

  81. Foxwood says:

    It’s a good day to be a subject of the Dictatorship!
    Sieg Heil und Guten Morgan fellow unAmerican Nazis!
    It’s time to unfurl the Confederate Swastika and fire the cannon!

  82. Foxwood says:

    N1H1 is no longer an issue. Why are we still under a National Emergency?

  83. samiam60 says:

    Good Morning Foxwood. What happened to Whitney Houston?

    Why are we still under a state of emergency? My guess, Martial Law.

    I am off today and then begin a 6 day straight work a thon. Yikes!

  84. samiam60 says:

    Good Morning VF and all of my favorite Patriots 🙂

  85. Foxwood says:

    Good morning Sami!

    Haven’t seen VF yet. Looks like Whitney’s taken way to many drugs. Maybe she can take a que from Ozzie Osborn.

  86. samiam60 says:


    I have always thought Whitney Houston was such an incredibly beautiful woman. It is a shame that with all her wealth and fame that someone has come forward to save her.

  87. Foxwood says:

    Speaking of Ozzy, maybe VF needs something other than cannon fire to wake up?

  88. VotingFemale says:

    Good Morning Sammy! Foxwood!

  89. Foxwood says:

    I knew that would do it!

  90. Foxwood says:

    Good morning VF!

  91. Foxwood says:

    BRB, got to shower for work.

  92. Pingback: Hazy HotAir Syntax Bad for Republicans in Military « ON MY WATCH – the writings of SamHenry

  93. VotingFemale says:

    I was clearing out the spam folder and attending to e-mail… lots of stuff this morning.

    The O’Reilly Greta shows was interesting last evening… left wing commentary absolutely avoids the problem voters have with ObamaCare… it is about the damn MONEY!!! and the Socialists fiddle but wouldn’t it be good hearted to insure 31million… sure it would… but not at the expense of the destrction of the economy and government invasion of our bank accounts and our everyday lives.

    it is about the money and they dont want to talk about that… and avoid it … then say voters are stupid.

    Same thing with Arnold Schwarzenegger… he is absolutely a PROGRESSIVE-SOCIALIST DIRT BAG.

  94. VotingFemale says:

    Good Morning SamHenry!

  95. samiam60 says:

    Good Morning VF and SamH.

    If I am not mistaken Obama has not has a news conference in about 246 days. Oh the fear he must have of being naked with out his Teleprompter.

    I also believe he has dropped some more in the polls 54% against I think.

  96. VotingFemale says:

    dang… electricity went out… we are having wet snow fall but not all that bad. the electric company sucks

  97. VotingFemale says:

    his last one was where he said the Cambridge Police Department acted stupidly… lol

    did he ever get his stupid remark jammed up his communist keister!

    samiam60 says

    Good Morning VF and SamH.

    If I am not mistaken Obama has not has a news conference in about 246 days. Oh the fear he must have of being naked with out his Teleprompter.

    I also believe he has dropped some more in the polls 54% against I think.

  98. samiam60 says:

    An Obama Resignation might just jump start our economic recovery. If any thing, it would sure make us all feel safer.

  99. samiam60 says:

    The Obamacide of America continues.

  100. VotingFemale says:

    his new ObamaCare proposal he said has a price tage of 950 billion… byt the CBO says it can not be scored because it lacks details.

    and the MONEY IS ISSUE ONE

    damn socialists think jamming something like that through will not come at a price? it will end them as a party…

  101. VotingFemale says:

    how is your new job going, Sammy? enjoying it?

  102. Foxwood says:

    Death Panels are on the horizon. Obamageddon is coming!

  103. Foxwood says:

    Good morning Rosey! 🙂

  104. rosehips says:

    Death panels are a good thing foxy. I do not want YOU or your doctor deciding to keep your granny alive with my tax dollars. It is better for those who have no emotional attachment to granny to decide her ultimate fate. I would like to be on a death panel. The power to decide a person’s fate would make me feel like God.

    want to touch me?

  105. Foxwood says:


  106. Foxwood says:

    Sorry gramma, let me help you out there. I brought my 45.

  107. VotingFemale says:

    Obamageddon… well said

    Foxwood says

    Death Panels are on the horizon. Obamageddon is coming!

  108. VotingFemale says:

    good Morning Rosehips!

  109. Foxwood says:

    Why are you so concerned about tax dollars when the whole Healthcare thing is a waste?

  110. VotingFemale says:

    you summed up the Socialist Mindset extremely well!

    I know it was said tongue-in-cheek

    rosehips says

    Death panels are a good thing foxy. I do not want YOU or your doctor deciding to keep your granny alive with my tax dollars. It is better for those who have no emotional attachment to granny to decide her ultimate fate. I would like to be on a death panel. The power to decide a person’s fate would make me feel like God.

    want to touch me?

  111. Foxwood says:

    Don’t even let it be government run to begin with. That solves alot of the problem.

  112. Foxwood says:

    Gramma says “I don’t want to die yet”

    Too bad granny… Suck on the muzzle right here.

  113. VotingFemale says:

    The Leftists are such sore losers… hahahaha

    This ObamaCare BS is handing them their asses… and the more they push it the more their asses are getting kicked.

    that is the price they pay for their uppity-ness lol

  114. Foxwood says:

    Get the government out of it, and guess what? The tax payers don’t pay. Wow. Who’da thunk it?

  115. rosehips says:

    yes VF, tongue and cheek, but I do sincerely feel that we shouldn’t be keeping people alive who can’t survive on their own, and will never survive on their own. Our premiums are due to increase by astronomical rates but still people feel violated at the mention of cutting off that end of life prolongation. I read a statistic about the percentage of health care spent on a person’s end of life treatment. It’s way too high!

  116. rosehips says:

    good point foxy. we as taxpayers aren’t paying for end of life care, unless it’s Medicare, which it mostly is for end of life issues. Right? I suppose you think we should cut all the elderly off Medicare, right?

    foxy said: Get the government out of it, and guess what? The tax payers don’t pay. Wow. Who’da thunk it?

  117. samiam60 says:

    VF says
    how is your new job going, Sammy? enjoying it?


    I am supposed to be retired but no I am under Obamanomics and have to go out into a very competitive market place and work endless hours. I am among mostly young people and watched as two of them were fired yesterday. This is a time of survival of the fittest out there.

    I am off today as I will be working 6 days straight starting tomorrow. I cannot say anything good except the money is there and I will do this as long as need be to insure that I can return to retirement some time soon.

    The management is very vulgar and I have seen a lot of yelling and screaming coming from them throughout the day. Funny, didn’t see that in the interviews nor was that in the brochures.

    Live and learn. I can only give it my best.

  118. rosehips says:

    btw, I went into Spokane yesterday (about 70 miles from here). I had a 8:30 am appt. I got there early. The gal at the desk asked if my insurance was the same. I said no, I now have Basic Health. She said sorry, the good doctor doesn’t accept it. I said oh, my bad. I should have asked when I made the appt. I said this is what health care in America is all about. I said this will give me something to blog about later. The women at the front desk were apologetic. I was resigned. I don’t begrudge anyone. I am not entitled to have a doctor inspect my entire naked body for blemishes that may turn my skin scaly and ugly. I am not entitled to have my doctor burn the precancer from my face so it does not eat my face away. Who do I think I am expecting taxpayers to foot the bill for my “cosmetic” procedure? If I want the cancer burned from my body, I damn well should pay for it myself, right?

  119. samiam60 says:

    Good Morning Rosie,

    I am sorry to say this dear sweet Rosie but most of your comments seem to ring of ME,ME,ME.

    Do you really pay that much in Taxes that you would vote to end a Life?

  120. VotingFemale says:

    and that is why 31 million are without health care… if they can’t survive on their own, why should others be burdened with their inability to pay an insurance premium?

    And if grandma is not good enough but some lazy 30 woman on welfare tossing kids out by the dozen to get more welfare?

    see… once you cross a line… you cross a line…

    hubs related a joke to me years ago that is pulled by asking a guy if he would give a blow job for one million dollars…
    usually the response is “for a million? yes I would.”

    the punchline is: Now that we have established you are a cock sucker… lets not quibble over the price.

    see, killing is killing… once killing is justified, say due to age… then the door is open.

    rosehips says

    yes VF, tongue and cheek, but I do sincerely feel that we shouldn’t be keeping people alive who can’t survive on their own, and will never survive on their own. Our premiums are due to increase by astronomical rates but still people feel violated at the mention of cutting off that end of life prolongation. I read a statistic about the percentage of health care spent on a person’s end of life treatment. It’s way too high!

  121. Foxwood says:

    I thought Medicare was supposed to get fixed, Rosey? That’s your government killing granny.

  122. VotingFemale says:

    we can not return to medical technology of the 50s…

  123. rosehips says:

    fyi, you all are paying my premiums these day, at least 80% of them. I am on a federal program because my job was outsourced to the Philippines. Because of this, the feds pay 80% of my $383. insurance premium. I only pay $74. I believe my insurer is a non profit org contracted with the state. that is the best way to do it. Otherwise, the gov’t would be paying a big profit making corp. Since I rarely use my insurance, given my aversion to doctors, the insurance comp would be shoveling all that gov’t funding right into their overflowing coffers. That would piss me off.

  124. samiam60 says:

    Would any parent ever say to a child with Terminal Cancer, sorry sweetie you are just costing us too much money, time to go!

    Life is Life and it is and always has been Precious!

  125. Foxwood says:

    “I suppose you think we should cut all the elderly off Medicare, right?”

    I thought you were for killing granny. We can fix medicare without killing the rest of America.

  126. Foxwood says:

    If you want the good health care, Canada is just a jog down the road.

  127. VotingFemale says:

    Foxwood… the Socialists are big into Eugenics…

    what’s not to understand?

    Rose has said many times she agrees with the tenets of Eugenics.

    I say, ok… lets round up every communist and socialist in the country and pen them up in the state of Utah with nothing to eat, nothing to wear and no man made shelters and let them go back to the stone age… as a collective… and may the strong survive… the rest? well.. they didnt deserve to live because they were well… just not fit enough.

  128. samiam60 says:

    VF, LOL, only you would give an example like that one. lol


  129. rosehips says:

    and sami this isn’t about me. I don’t think like that. I use my taxes as an example because people relate to that. But I guess most people would rather pay the out of control premiums as long as they can have that extra 20 days with granny. I understand.

  130. rosehips says:

    lol vf.

    I argued this same point the other night and my good friend called me out by telling me she didn’t want to pay for my health insurance after I told her I didn’t want to pay to keep her mom alive. Then she asked if I would advocate killing all the disabled and mentally ill. I was speechless for a bit. I wish I had showed her that the comparisons were unfair. I am not saying we should kill granny. Just don’t subsidize the expensive care it requires to keep her alive artificially.

  131. rosehips says:

    foxy, I never said we should kill granny. Just put her out to pasture, or to the bush as the native americans used to do.

  132. Foxwood says:

    When you tax the SH!T out of everything including helping ILLEGALS, THE WHALES, THE OTTERS, we run out of tax dollars to help UNITED STATES CITIZENS. Spending has to be stopped on NON ESSENTIAL SH!T.

  133. VotingFemale says:

    no one is stuck with a single insurance company… if Blue Cross jacks up their rate, then folks go to their competition…

    problem is states screw around with Insurance companies and prevents real competition.

    my auto insurance dropped 50% when Mass changed their obscene insurance regulations… and many insurance co’s started doing business in Mass for the first time.

    The competition dropped the rates by a HUGE amount.

  134. samiam60 says:

    I am facing a serious situation right now under my Veterans Health Care plan. Guess what, my odds are not good should the health issue turn out to be serious. They use “time” to insure a health problem becomes terminal. They make you wait months and months to treat a health problem in the hopes they can save “Money”. I know first hand and am living it.

  135. Foxwood says:

    We can’t continue to take loans from China to pay for CRAP!

  136. Foxwood says:

    Social Security and Medicare might be fixed if we were not in debt.

  137. VotingFemale says:

    that kind of logic will ensure the Left is handed their collective asses in 2010 and 2012…

    I hope they keep it up… and I see the uninsured went from 19 million without illegal aliens to 31 million including illegal aliens again this week.

    rosehips says

    Just don’t subsidize the expensive care it requires to keep her alive artificially.

  138. Foxwood says:

    “rather pay the out of control premiums ”

    Fix the problem. Giving the government the job of healthcare is nothing but trouble. Government fixes NOTHING.

  139. samiam60 says:

    No one seems to mind that we send Billions of Tax dollars overseas to fight things like Aids in Africa and other Social problems in Europe.

    You won’t hear a lib say a word about that.

    We send Billions to feed the starving overseas. Most of these folks live in a desert. Why not move them to a place where they can grow food. Last I heard the Desert is going any place soon.

  140. Foxwood says:

    “Just don’t subsidize the expensive care it requires to keep her alive artificially.”

    Stop wasteful spending (otters) and maybe granny can live longer.

  141. VotingFemale says:

    Obama proposes a brand new building be constructed at tax payer expense…

    a 1 BILLION dollar building in London…

    during an F’ing economic crisis…

    keep it up Obama, the more ammunition you give us to use to switch more voters into canceling Socialists in 2010 and 2012, the better…

    Obama Stupidity… the gift that keeps on giving! 😉

  142. VotingFemale says:

    power here is till out…

    I hope it returns before my battery back up system runs out of power…

  143. rosehips says:

    sami, I am sorry that the VA provides such poor service to you and all our vets. I wonder if it is especially bad in your area. I went to a town hall meeting where a local vet was singing praises of his VA bennies and was expressing fear that he would lose them. I have been learning about insurance lately as I trained to be an insurance consultant recently. I am learning about TriCare and TriCare for life. I think that is for vets who were enlisted for 20 or more years. it’s all so complicated.
    VF, competition is great, but costs are atronomical. No wonder with all the wonderful procedures we have available. But they all cost money and everyone has their hand out. Have you looked at the kind of profits the medical industry has been making? Do you wonder why costs are so high?

  144. Foxwood says:

    I don’t get why we have to make peoples healthcare they like sh!t to fix those that don’t have healthcare.

    Fix the problem, don’t f*ck up healthcare.

  145. rosehips says:

    foxy if you had paid a little more attention in school you would understand why saving endangered species is beneficial to us all.

  146. Foxwood says:

    Don’t f*ck up my healthcare.

  147. samiam60 says:


    Ask Arlene Army about VA health care. So one guy says something good about the VA and you think it might be a local problem? Listen to the out cry from the MAJORITY of Veterans and you will see the Government Run anything is real bad for the People.

  148. Foxwood says:

    Nice try Rose. Kill an otter. Save Granny.

  149. Foxwood says:

    Look at Indian Hospitals across the US, Rose. That is the future of Healthcare.

  150. samiam60 says:

    Kill Grandma and Abort the babies but by all means save the Whale.

    What a bunch of Bullshit

  151. rosehips says:

    I probably have shared this before but it’s worth repeating. This was a real conversation my son had with a friend when he was around 6 years old.

    Jonah: (patting cat on his lap): Conrad, do you know that the whole world is interconnected?
    Conrad: what do you mean?
    Jonah, well, like, if we didn’t have any cats, we’d have a whole lotta mice, and then we’d have no cheese.

  152. VotingFemale says:

    Rosehips, let the Socialist figure out how to make healthcare free… end of problem.

    free means at no cost to anyone in any way shape or form… until they figure out how to do that there is no point in debating them on the merits of killing this country with an unsustainable burden, regardless of the debate.

    national suicide is what it is… and this country will not be allowed to go down because Communists and Socialists try to engineer it.

    they lose, the country wins… period

  153. rosehips says:

    foxy, I look up to Canada and think, we are Americans, we can f*ck this up better than they can, eh? lol

  154. Foxwood says:

    Different strokes for different folks
    and so on and so on… Blah bla bla

  155. VotingFemale says:

    all the Communists and Socialists are doing is putting nails in their own political coffin.

    and they are such bad losers…

  156. rosehips says:

    vf, the goal, imo, is affordable, not free. We should all be able to afford health care. Otherwise we may as well just throw everyone who isn’t well off out on the streets to fend for themselves.

  157. rosehips says:

    So foxy and VF, you don’t begrudge the six figure incomes that so many insurance execs reap these days? You don’t think that the increasing profits by insurance companies isn’t obscene?

  158. Foxwood says:

    “I look up to Canada and think, we are Americans, we can f*ck this up better than they can, eh? lol”

    There you go. Move to a better system.

  159. VotingFemale says:

    Let Canada jack up their National Defense spending by 400 billion dollars so we can lower ours by 400 billion and lets see the real burden sharing lol

    all these socialist countries are dodging the financial responsibility for the safety of their asses… at the expense of the US taxpayer…

    The way I see it… the rest of the world owes us 100 trillion dollars for past protection… let them pay it over a 10 year period and see what kind of health care they provide.

    shall we?

  160. samiam60 says:

    I have been “Fending” for myself my whole life.

    That is how the American Dream began and is the way it should be. Hard work should be rewarded not Spread Around.

  161. VotingFemale says:

    these socialist countries are like adult children living in the Basement of the US Taxpayers… with free room and board so they can spend what money they make on self-serving BS.

  162. VotingFemale says:

    and folks… all the Socialist bull crap in the world will not be allowed to destroy the US…

    they will be locked out of adult politics…

  163. rosehips says:

    good point vf, but are we defending Canada? Are the terrorist pissed at them too? well perhaps but not as much as they hate the US.

  164. rosehips says:

    if you were Canadian, would you want your country to get more involved? I wouldn’t

  165. rosehips says:

    if I was Canadian I would ask the US for money because they are putting our country at risk. lol

  166. samiam60 says:

    We have been defending Canada and ALL of the America’s from the Soviet threat since 1945.

    Lets not forget we still are defending everyone from a nuclear attack.

    Had there been no America the world today would be Communist.

    How would that be Rose?

  167. Foxwood says:

    “You don’t think that the increasing profits by insurance companies isn’t obscene?”

    Look at the profits yourself and learn something. They may 3% profits. Woo!

  168. VotingFemale says:

    Canada could not resist a war on its own with another country… say Iran, Russia, or China.
    They would go down in a week.

    get informed, if you want to debate global defense… I don’t have the time to educate folks on the reality of the expensive role of the US defending the free world… while they take virtually no fiscal responsibility.

    rosehips says

    good point vf, but are we defending Canada? Are the terrorist pissed at them too? well perhaps but not as much as they hate the US.

  169. samiam60 says:

    Rose says
    if I was Canadian I would ask the US for money because they are putting our country at risk. lol



  170. Foxwood says:

    “Otherwise we may as well just throw everyone who isn’t well off out on the streets to fend for themselves.”

    I thought you believed in eugenics?

  171. samiam60 says:


  172. VotingFemale says:

    If there were a war between the US and Canada, Canada would be turned into a wasteland in moments…

    Canada is utterly defenseless… against a strong country… and they know it… Canada relies on the US taxpayer for their real and very expensive defense… and they parade around the money they spend on socialism like they are special… those asshats would not exist as a country without us.

  173. VotingFemale says:

    The US should charge Canada at least 100 billion a year for defense.

    let’s see them pay it… and provide socialized medicine.

  174. VotingFemale says:

    see? this is why it is useless to debate Socialists… they dont want to understand fiscal responsibility… they just want what they want and pretend money grows on trees…

    doesn’t work that way and that is why the Tea Party movement started…

  175. rosehips says:

    VF, point well taken. I will admit to not being informed about Canada’s defense program and I am sure you are right that they depend on us and should be eternally grateful to us for all we provide. I have been talking with my tongue halfway in my cheek but also serious about my beliefs about healthcare. I know universal healthcare is a dirty word around here. You all know I support it. It is not perfect, but I contend it is better than what we have. I would like to think American ingenuity can improve upon it, but you know how cynical we all are about what our gov’t can truely do.

    I did not intend for the discussion to get into foreign defense and US/Canada relations. I am out of my realm I admit. I submit to your superior knowledge on international politics. I am not worthy. 😉

  176. Foxwood says:

    Gimme gimme gimme…

  177. VotingFemale says:

    more BS..

    the profit margin of Health Insurance Companies is 4.3%

    They are 88th on the profitability list…

    stop making stuff up

    rosehips says

    So foxy and VF, you don’t begrudge the six figure incomes that so many insurance execs reap these days? You don’t think that the increasing profits by insurance companies isn’t obscene?

  178. Foxwood says:

    Like I said… if you like theirs, you can walk across the boarder.

  179. rosehips says:

    VF, I have failed to mention how delightful it is to have you with us this morning. It is always more lively when you are participating in the discussion. We miss you when real life calls you away.

  180. VotingFemale says:

    the total cost of a country to be a country has to be taken into account.

    just like the total cost of you being a living breathing person.

    you can not simply ignore bills you dont like and spend money on things you want instead… you will go bankrupt.

    also you can not long live on a credit card to sustain spending money you do not have regardless of how cool the stuff is you buy…

    this is the Socialist Avoidance of Fiscal Responsibility that is canceling their asses like postage stamps…

    rosehips says

    VF, point well taken. I will admit to not being informed about Canada’s defense program

  181. rosehips says:

    As Anthem Blue Cross sends profit to WellPoint, it plans hefty rate hikes for Californians
    By Lisa Girion

    February 23, 2010
    Even as the health insurance giant turns over hundreds of millions in profits to its parent company, it defends plans to raise rates for Californians whose care last year exceeded premiums paid.

    Health insurance giant Anthem Blue Cross said it was raising rates on thousands of individual policyholders in California because the cost of their medical care exceeded the premiums they paid last year.

    At the same time, other parts of Anthem reaped a profit. A Times analysis of the company’s regulatory filings shows that $525 million in Anthem’s earnings in 2009 was shipped to its corporate parent WellPoint Inc. The analysis’ findings were not disputed by Anthem.

    Anthem Blue Cross has been so profitable that, since WellPoint acquired it in 2004, it has contributed more than $4.2 billion to the parent company’s bottom line.

  182. rosehips says:

    and I apologize for being so acerbic this morning. I don’t know what got into me. I should put sweetner in my coffee. I am much too much on edge.

  183. Foxwood says:

    When I have time, I can conter the BS, Rose…

  184. VotingFemale says:

    power is back, thank goodness

  185. Foxwood says:

    That’s a total BSW article…

    but nice propaganda…

  186. rosehips says:

    this morning when I got up I found a brown bag with a brown bottle in it. I pulled the bottle out. It was a quart (actually 1 pint, 6 oz) of Arrogant Bastard Ale. Alcohol content is 7.2. The logo has a devil drinking a mug of ale and the caption on the bottom of the bottle says “You’re Not Worthy” My son must have had a nice buzz on last night. lol

  187. samiam60 says:


    When the day comes we finally meet I do so hope Spankings won’t be needed. lol

    or do I? Hmmmmmmm 🙂

    You are a real trooper and I do admire you sharing your beliefs and opinions knowing full well there will be a Conservative onslaught coming your way.

    How many of us could go to a Liberal Blog and maintain a civil and friendly debate? I think not many.

  188. VotingFemale says:

    dear, your talking points are right out the Socialist Play book… I have no problem with you stating them and attempting to justify them.

    but it all comes down to Fiscal Responsibility and when that is focused on the Socialists view of managing the country folds like a house of cards… it is nonsense… yet they have wormed into folks who are not well informed enough to extract money and support for their bs…
    they are in it for power and control… and use any means of BS to gain it.

    The informed voter is putting their foot down to the nonsense. and that is what makes America great. This will not kill America it makes us stronger… to politically do what needs to be done and put a stop to the Socialist insanity in this country.

    rosehips says

    and I apologize for being so acerbic this morning. I don’t know what got into me. I should put sweetner in my coffee. I am much too much on edge.

  189. rosehips says:

    and just to be fair, I found this blog which seems to me a fair analysis of how much insurance companies profit per person insured. Interestingly, the blog is called “The American Catholic”

  190. m2 says:

    Hey guys, mornin’!

    Rose, the insane profits? Where’s the data? I’ve saw the forbes list that says the insurance industry has a profit margin of about 2.2 percent or something.

    Why aren’t we demonizing Google and Tech who are number one? I’m sure the Feds could tax the bejeevus out of the Tech industry in order or expand the ponzi pyramid a for a bit longer and cut care for 70 . Insurance industry is like number 12 down the line? Besides a free country is run through business (capitalism). If I run a business I better have a profit for chrissakes. That allows me to prosper and my employees (fellow citizens) to prosper. Ec 101.

    Did anyone see Generation Zero last night at 9?we have Socialism for the poor, and big business, i.e. Wall Street 80% of which is tied to the Democrat party. Shouldn’t more people be in Jail than Madoff? Like Dodd, Feinstein, Pelosi (her minimum wage exemption for HER company)…. So many. So many swindlers of the system. All the money they could be saving us by insuring the illegals for us. That’s liberal logic though, lol.

    Anyway, only the middleclass is Capitalist. And that is what Obama has been programmed to destroy.

    So, rosehips, do you really think you have skin cancer? Do you know for sure, like they biopsied it and they were going to remove it?

    That is very scary. And I’m worried about you too sami.

  191. rosehips says:

    and VF if you are implying that I am being influenced by socialists, I will deny it. haha

    I form my own opinions and don’t base them on any one ideology. If they mirror socialist rhetoric, fine. I am not saying I don’t read socialist literature. You can’t avoid it. Does it influence me? How could it not if it makes sense to me. Call me naive, I have held some views for a long time and feel that I come by my opinions naturally.

  192. VotingFemale says:

    and how are the Socialist reacting?

    just watch Bill Maher ranting about stupid voters who don’t buy the Socialist BS…. hahahahaha

    bitter poor loser… name calling his parents for denying him his folly

    best he join a commune and live out his life in a fantasy land.

  193. rosehips says:

    Hey m2, good to see you!

    well, okay. I concede that the profits are no longer what they used to be. But don’t think they are not thinking of ways to increase them!

  194. Foxwood says:

    Are These “Evil For-Profit Health Insurance Companies” Really So Evil?

    Thursday, August 13th, 2009 by swordofdestiny at 1:55pm

    Afternoon Gnomies! Once again I bring you a tale about health insurance. There are a lot of misconceptions out there about just how much money these “evil for-profit health insurance companies” profit. Anyways, let us consult Yahoo! Finance about three different large health insurance companies. We’ll look at Aetna, Unitedhealth Group, Inc. and Tenet Healthcare Corp.

    Aetna Inc. (AET):

    * Revenue: $32.67 Billion
    * Gross Profit: $8.23 Billion

    Unitedhealth Group, Inc. (UNH):

    * Revenue: $84.27 Billion
    * Gross Profit: $6.24 Billion

    Tenet Healthcare Corp (THC):

    * Revenue: $8.89 Billion
    * Gross Profit: $4.85 Billion

    Man! These insurance companies are making such an obscene amount of profits! Let’s have at ‘em boys! Burn ‘em to the ground! We’ll show these brutes what’s coming to them for profiting on our misery!

    Wait a second. That’s all gross profit. Sort of like, when you get your check, you have gross income before all the taxes, social security, etc gets taken out. What we really get in our pocket is our net income. To really see how much these companies make, and their real profit margins we need to use their net profit figure. Sadly, Yahoo! Finance doesn’t include that figure. However, they do include the true profit margin figure. We can use that and the revenue figure to reverse the formula and find out just how much profit these companies really make. Then we’ll compare them to Wal-Mart, Microsoft and Exxon.

    Okay, the formula that you derive the profit margin from is:

    Profit margin = (net profit/revenue) * 100

    …Net profit is equal to the gross profit minus overheads minus interest payable plus/minus one off items for a given time period…

    Source: Wikipedia and probably your macroeconomics textbook

    So, when we have the profit margin and the revenue figures, we can reverse that formula to find their net profit. That formula would be netprofit = (profit margin (with percentage as decimal, aka 4.3% is .043)*revenue)

    So, let’s plug in our healthcare companies, shall we?

    Aetna Inc. (AET):

    * Revenue: $32.67 Billion
    * Profit Margin: 3.85%
    * Net Profit: $1,257,795,000

    Unitedhealth Group, Inc. (UNH):

    * Revenue: $84.27 Billion
    * Profit Margin: 4.14%
    * Net Profit: $3,488,778,000

    Tenet Healthcare Corp (THC):

    * Revenue: $8.89 Billion
    * Profit Margin: 2.63%
    * Net Profit: $233,807,000

    So two of the healthcare insurance companies have broken the billion dollar mark the other makes a quarter billion. Even that is not so obscene in my opinion. Also, keep in mind that this net profit is after everyone has been paid, after corporate taxes, interest payments, etc. This money is used how the company sees fit. Now, let’s move on to Wal-Mart, Microsoft and Exxon.

    Wal-Mart Stores Inc. (WMT):

    * Revenue: $404.91 Billion
    * Gross Profit: $99.45 Billion
    * Profit Margin: 3.31%
    * Net Profit: $13,402,521,000

    So, Wal-Mart makes as much as about eleven Aetnas and around four Unitedhealth Group, Inc. Puts a bit of perspective on it.
    Microsoft Corporation (MSFT):

    * Revenue: $58.44 Billion
    * Gross Profit: $46.28 Billion
    * Profit Margin: 24.93%
    * Net Profit: $14,569,092,000

    Kind of interesting how much the profit margins change the net profit figures, isn’t it?
    Exxon Mobil Corp. (XOM):

    * Revenue: $346.88 Billion
    * Gross Profit: $188.55 Billion
    * Profit Margin: 8.98%
    * Net Profit: $311,498,240,000

    If you want obscene profits, take a look at that. Three hundred eleven billion. For good measure, and so Steve Jobs doesn’t feel left out, let’s look at Apple. Then, to see if Google is really doing no evil, let’s look at them as well!

    Apple Inc. (AAPL):

    * Revenue: $34.56 Billion
    * Gross Profit: $11.15 Billion
    * Profit Margin: 14.97%
    * Net Profit: $5,173,632,000

    Google Inc. (GOOG):

    * Revenue: $22.27 Billion
    * Gross Profit: $13.17 Billion
    * Profit Margin: 20.56%
    * Net Profit: $4,578,712,000

    Originally, this post ended here and thanks to a commentator named “Rob” I found out I had made a mistake with my figuring. Details of my original error in the comments. Anyways, I have decided to add a couple more companies. Big pharma anyone? Let’s take a look at four of the biggest pharmaceutical companies here in the United States. We’ll look at Pfizer, Johnson & Johnson, Merck and Bristol-Myers Squibb. Originally, I was going to use only three companies, but I though Johnson & Johnson might be a bit of an outlier in this category as they do make more than just pharmaceutical things (eg. shampoo, etc). Anyways, here we go.
    Pfizer Inc. (PFE):

    * Revenue: $46.17 Billion
    * Gross Profit: 40.18 Billion
    * Profit Margin: 16.32%
    * Net Profit: $7,534,944,000

    Johnson & Johnson (JNJ):

    * Revenue: $61.37 Billion
    * Gross Profit: $45.24 Billion
    * Profit Margin: 20.76%
    * Net Profit: $12,740,412,000

    Merck & Co. Inc. (MRK):

    * Revenue: $23.26 Billion
    * Gross Profit: $18.27 Billion
    * Profit Margin: 24.59%
    * Net Profit: $5,719,634,000

    Bristol-Myers Squibb Co. (BMY):

    * Revenue: $20.90 Billion
    * Gross Profit: $14.20 Billion
    * Profit Margin: 26.04%
    * Net Profit: $5,442,360,000

    So, casting aside the Johnson & Johnson outlier (as I figured it would be), these pharmas have better profit margins than most of the other companies. In fact, the companies with the lowest profit margin that I’ve listed are the healthcare insurers. So now that I’ve bombarded you with figures. Are the healthcare companies really making that obscene of a profit? Are they really holding a golden, ruby encrusted dagger to your throat and saying, “You give me money, or you no get better!”? I don’t mind if you check my math because if I’ve gotten it wrong, let me know so I can correct the figures (big thanks to Rob). Mainly since working with rather large numbers, leaving a zero out can be devistating. Anyways, comments and debate are welcome. However, keep in mind this is about healthcare, not Windows vs Mac. Again, all my figures I looked up on Yahoo! Finance. Also, I already have an idea about doing one more article on this issue of healthcare. I do believe I’m going to try to get the phone numbers of the CEOs of these companies and ask them what most of their net profits fund. Still, the profit margins for all three of the health insurers I looked at are less than 4.5%. Take what you want from this data. If I stimulate debate, that’s a good thing. I want to stimulate debate because without it, we know nothing. Without debate, we remain woefully unaware of the other side of the coin.

    Again, thanks to Rob for letting me know about the errors in my arithmetic. The numbers are updated and even an extra section added. Comments are welcomed.

  195. VotingFemale says:

    ahhh… if you invented your views then you are living in a parallel universe where up is down lol

    they are all right out of

    rosehips says

    and VF if you are implying that I am being influenced by socialists, I will deny it. haha

  196. samiam60 says:

    Good Morning M2. Sure do appreciate your insight on these Insurance Companies. They also play a part in improving our overall health care by allowing innovation to the medical field. How much would Obamacare provide to research?

    I am not overly concerned about what ever comes of my health situation. I have had many life experiences in my day and have learned to roll with the punches. I have allowed God to control my life since 1978 and He has never let me down. I am not alone.

  197. Foxwood says:

    Do some more homework Rose…

  198. m2 says:

    It’s the playbook to use one bad egg (anthem of CA) as the basis for bankrupting the entire nation and killing citizens while making the standard of living lower for everyone except the uber elites. Sooooo predictable, socialism marxism.

    Well competition and the Right regulation would solve all issues with fraud.

    And yet the biggest most fraudulent insurer in the “insurance industry”, the one that cuts more benefits than any other insurance company is the Federal medicare and medicaid. As rose demonstrated her doctor won’t accept her government insurer. Probably due to reimbursements.

    All this talk of “big profit” and what entity makes the most gross profit with no repurcussion as to spending it wisely?


  199. rosehips says:

    m2, if I have cancer it is early stage or pre cancer and nothing that concerns me. I can wait another couple years and hope that I have better insurance then. I may actually be able to switch providers to one my dermatologist accepts. It’s complicated since I am enrolled in the federal program.

    My dad had melanoma twice and I am at high risk so yes, it is risky not to see a pro every few years at least. My doc scolds me if I wait longer than a year. oh well, I may become a statistic of the best health care system in the world. If you can afford it. boo hoo for me. 😉

  200. m2 says:

    Unfortunately I have to go to an appt at 10 and look now it is 9:53.


    Catch you all later.

  201. rosehips says:

    I definitely am not a follower of moveon, although I supported them back in the Kerry/Bush election. I have no doubt that I am living in a parrallel universe with them. I think if I look out the window I may even see some of them walking down the street. hehehe

  202. VotingFemale says:

    Fiscal Responsibility, Socialist pretend it does not exist… voters know better and are whipping the socialists like dogs changed to a wall.

  203. Foxwood says:

    “But don’t think they are not thinking of ways to increase them!”

    That’s the American way! Profit make us less Communistic…

  204. VotingFemale says:

    Good Morning M2!

    insane health insurance profit margins… like we cant get the real facts…

    just plain loony for the Socialists to hand their sheep a talking point like that… and pretend it is true!

    too F’ing Funny!

  205. samiam60 says:

    I too must get on to taking care of some things. It seems once I get started on here it is near impossible to let go. I do so love this Blog.

    Catch all in a short while.

  206. rosehips says:

    if everyone turned off their tv and tuned out their messiahs I think we could come to better resolutions. I had a debate in the car the other day with a climate change denier. He sounded EXACTLY like foxy. I swear they both have identical playbooks.

  207. rosehips says:

    sami, I am so glad you have been able to be here this morning. I know every minute we have with you is precious time. I hope your job works out for you!

  208. samiam60 says:


    Before I go I have to throw this in. We don’t have a Play Book. We use Common Sense.

  209. VotingFemale says:

    competition in a free market system dictates profit… companies who gain market share make more profit and it’s because of exchanging value for money.

    that is why labor unions will ultimately crumble under their own greed. you cant get something for nothing… for long.

  210. Foxwood says:

    Hello/goodbey M2!

  211. rosehips says:

    I am sorry if anyone is exasperated by my comments this morning. I guess I am still upset by the discussion I had the other day about death panels.

  212. Foxwood says:

    There is no Climat Crap, Rose… They admitted to lying and you deny that… 🙂

  213. rosehips says:

    sami, I have a good friend who claims the same. I tell him you gotta walk the walk instead of just talkin the talk. sorry, but common sense hardly comes into the equation.

    sami said: Rosie,

    Before I go I have to throw this in. We don’t have a Play Book. We use Common Sense.

  214. Foxwood says:

    That’s called insanity…

  215. rosehips says:

    I know there is no climate crap foxy. that’s what the guy said too! 😉

  216. Foxwood says:

    Everybody want’s good healthcare, right, Rosey?

    Why not fix the problems instead of Fing up the 85% of the people that have good healthcare insurance?

    It’s called Socialist Population Control…

  217. samiam60 says:

    Rosie says
    sami, I have a good friend who claims the same. I tell him you gotta walk the walk instead of just talkin the talk. sorry, but common sense hardly comes into the equation.


    BINGO, without common sense you have nothing. This is exactly why the liberals keep banging their heads against the wall. They cannot see the Forrest for the Trees.

    Our constitution is in fact Common Sense. That is why it built the Great Nation the World has ever seen. Now that is Walking the Walk.

  218. Foxwood says:

    That’s what Climate Crap is about also…

    Socialist Population Control

  219. VotingFemale says:

    Man-Made Global Warming…

    another Socialist fingers-in-the-ears ploy…

    Man-Made Global Warming is a hoax… and the Socialists are caught red handed at it… of course they deny it is a hoax! It’s THEIR HOAX!!!!


    We dont Need Socialists to accept responsibility for trying to pull that hoax!

    We dont need their permission to polically cancel their asses like postage stamps…

    The reality of their BS is the reality of their fall of influence… and good riddance… they have inspired the majority of voters to wake up and kick their political butts clean out of town.

    This is why BS never works in the end..

  220. samiam60 says:


    NAACP to Honor Van Jones as ‘American Treasure’

    White House green jobs adviser Van Jones quit the post last year after he was dogged by past remarks and associations, but that isn’t stopping the NAACP from awarding him one of its Image Awards

    White House green jobs adviser Van Jones quit the post last year after he was dogged by past remarks and associations, but that isn’t stopping the NAACP from awarding him one of its Image Awards — and even calling him a “American treasure.”

    Jones, who served as an adviser to the White House Council on Environmental Quality, generated mounting criticism last summer, first for calling Republicans “assholes” during a videotaped address earlier in the year and then for signing a petition in 2004 supporting the “9/11 truther” movement, which believes the Bush administration may have been involved in the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks.

    The latter development, which came on top of several others, was perhaps the most devastating and led to calls for his resignation.

    But Jones still has his share of outspoken supporters, and one of them is Benjamin Todd Jealous, president and CEO of the NAACP.

    “Van Jones is an American treasure,” Jealous writes in an opinion piece posted at “He is quite simply one of the few Americans in recent years to have generated powerful new ideas that are creating new jobs.”

    Jealous cites Jones’ book “The Green Collar Economy,” his role in passing the 2007 Green Jobs Act and his work with low-income people in Oakland, Calif.

    At the time of his resignation, Jones said the controversies had become an unceasing distraction, and he assailed his critics.

    “On the eve of historic fights for health care and clean energy, opponents of reform have mounted a vicious smear campaign against me. They are using lies and distortions to distract and divide,” Jones said.

    Jones is considered a rising star in environmental circles. In addition to writing “The Green Collar Economy,” he has co-founded and worked with several groups dedicated to helping low-income and minority communities — often through green jobs and better environmental policy. He got his start as a San Francisco-area activist.

    Former Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean, speaking last year on “Fox News Sunday,” called Jones’ resignation a “loss for the country.”

    But critics raised questions about his fitness for a White House-level office, pointing to his radical activities a decade ago as well as more recent controversial stances.

    Jones was a self-described “communist” during the 1990s and previously worked with a group dedicated to Marxist and Leninist philosophies. His comments, even in recent years, were often racially charged. He’s blamed “white polluters and white environmentalists” for “steering poison” to minority communities. In 2005, he drew a distinction between white and black youths involved in shooting incidents by referencing the 1999 Columbine High School massacre.

    “You’ve never seen a Columbine done by a black child. Never,” Jones said. “They always say, ‘We can’t believe it happened here. We can’t believe it’s these suburban white kids.’ It’s only them!” he said. “Now, a black kid might shoot another black kid. He’s not going to shoot up the whole school.”

    Such statements did not draw widespread attention until after a February video surfaced showing him calling Republicans “assholes” during an address in Berkeley, Calif. Jones apologized, but faced down his past again when it was discovered that he signed a 2004 statement calling on then-New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer and others to launch an investigation into evidence that suggests “people within the current administration may indeed have deliberately allowed 9/11 to happen, perhaps as a pretext for war.”

    Jones afterward issued a blanket apology for his past statements and said the petition does not reflect his views. An aide said Jones didn’t carefully review the petition at the time.

    But that claim was swiftly disputed by “He did agree with that statement and he did sign on to it,” spokesman Mike Berger told Fox News in a telephone interview from St. Louis on Friday. Berger said the group’s “original board members individually confirmed all signatories that had signed on to the statement.”

    The calls for resignation mounted. And lawmakers said the problems surrounding Jones spoke to the broader concern about so-called White House “czars,” top advisers and officials who do not need congressional approval.


  221. VotingFemale says:

    and the Socialists failure to read the hand writing on the wall and continue to try to pass ObamaCare shows their feeble mindedness… they are too stupid to realize they are done for…

    I hope they continue to push ObamaCare and Global Warming… AAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  222. Foxwood says:

    NAACP = National Association for the Advancement of the Communist Party?

  223. VotingFemale says:

    that is sooo cool!

    NAACP has outed themselves as COMMUNISM HUGGERS!!!!! what total morons!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    There seems to be no limit to the stupidity of the Socialists who are on sharp decline of credibility in this country.

    does it get better? God I hope so!!!!!!


    samiam60 says


    NAACP to Honor Van Jones as ‘American Treasure’

  224. VotingFemale says:

    More Obama Economy Management News…

    News Alert: New home sales hit record low in January
    10:03 AM EST Wednesday, February 24, 2010

    Sales of new homes plunged to a record low in January, underscoring the formidable challenges facing the housing industry as it tries to recover from the worst slump in decades.

    The Commerce Department reported Wednesday that new home sales dropped 11.2 percent last month to a seasonally adjusted annual sales pace of 309,000 units, the lowest level on records going back nearly a half century. The big drop was a surprise to economists who had expected sales would rebound to an annual rate of 360,000 units.

  225. VotingFemale says:

    Obama Socialist Economists were surprised…


    Socialism is a balloon full of hot air…. when the air cools for lack of money to heat it… it falls.

  226. Foxwood says:

    I would prefer to bust the balloons…

  227. rosehips says:

    just for the record, I do not consider myself a socialist although I support some socialist programs.

    I am not in support of ObamaCare and I refuse to discuss climate change here anymore. You all know what I think and it does no good whatsoever to repeat myself.
    vf said: and the Socialists failure to read the hand writing on the wall and continue to try to pass ObamaCare shows their feeble mindedness… they are too stupid to realize they are done for…

  228. Foxwood says:

    “just for the record, I do not consider myself a socialist”

    Ok.. hee hee…

  229. rosehips says:

    holy cow, I swear I just looked out the window for the first time this morning and it is effin’ snowing! just like down in the bayou, eh foxy? The frickin shock is that this is the first time it’s snowed in months. Yesterday it was in the 50’s here so snow is a big deal.

    I heard that up until today, Spokane had 12 inches this season. Last season they had over 97 inches. Baltimore had 80 or 90 inches this season. No wonder tellit has been mia.

    I will talk weather, but not climate change except for perhaps a little jab here and there. what would it be if I couldn’t use sarcasm to needle those I love?

  230. rosehips says:

    foxy, you do not really know me. I have been an entreprenuer most of my life. I learned it from my dad. I used to buy oranges at the santa cruz flea market and egg rolls at some little market that made them for parties and charged 35 cents each. I went to a big Jose Cuervo volleyball tourney on the beach and hawked those egg rolls and oranges. I made big profits. lol. I love capitalism! wheeeeee…

  231. Foxwood says:

    Should we deny Insurance Companies profits?

  232. rosehips says:

    frankly foxy, I would rather my health insurance be handled by a non profit. I don’t care if it is gov’t run or not as long as the costs to taxpayers are kept down. That is the bottom line for me. Affordable insurance for all. If it means that insurance agents will have to change fields, so be it. I know you think I am a communist because of this. sorry.

  233. Foxwood says:

    There are a lot of Communist entrepreneurs…

  234. Foxwood says:

    If you were an entrepreneur, you would have know businesses run things better than “non proffit’ and/or government…

  235. VotingFemale says:

    a note to Blocked Commenter ROSS, get a life Socialist Boy!

    I don’t debate koolaid drinking morons…

  236. Foxwood says:

    And governments can’t make insurance “affordable”…


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