Obama Health Care; A Native American Warning, the Ta’Shon Story

This hurts my heart…


Obama has betrayed Native Americans.

You are next…


Related News Article

Web posted Friday, June 19, 2009

Promises, promises: A look at Indian health care’s victims

By Mary Clare Jalonick
Associated Press Writer

CROW AGENCY, Mont. (AP) – Ta’Shon Rain Little Light, a happy little girl who loved to dance and dress up in traditional American Indian clothes, had stopped eating and walking. She complained constantly to her mother that her stomach hurt.

When Stephanie Little Light took her daughter to the Indian Health Service clinic in this wind-swept and remote corner of Montana, they told her the 5-year-old was depressed.

This July 2005 photo provided by the Little Light Family shows Ta’shon Rain Little Light in Crow Agency, Mont. Five-year-old Ta’shon had stopped eating and walking, and complained constantly to her mother that her stomach hurt. On her first and subsequent visits to the Indian Health Service clinic on the Crow Agency, Mont., Ta’shon’s mother was told her daughter was depressed, when in fact she had cancer, and died some months later. (AP Photo/Little Light Family)

Ta’Shon’s pain rapidly worsened and she visited the clinic about 10 more times over several months before her lung collapsed and she was airlifted to a children’s hospital in Denver. There she was diagnosed with terminal cancer, confirming the suspicions of family members.

A few weeks later, a charity sent the whole family to Disney World so Ta’Shon could see Cinderella’s Castle, her biggest dream. She never got to see the castle, though. She died in her hotel bed soon after the family arrived in Florida.

“Maybe it would have been treatable,” says her great-aunt, Ada White, as she stoically recounts the last few months of Ta’Shon’s short life. Stephanie Little Light cries as she recalls how she once forced her daughter to walk when she was in pain because the doctors told her it was all in the little girl’s head.

Ta’Shon’s story is not unique in the Indian Health Service system, which serves almost 2 million American Indians in 35 states.

On some reservations, the oft-quoted refrain is “don’t get sick after June,” when the federal dollars run out. It’s a sick joke, and a sad one, because it’s sometimes true, especially on the poorest reservations where residents cannot afford health insurance. Officials say they have about half of what they need to operate, and patients know they must be dying or about to lose a limb to get serious care.

Wealthier tribes can supplement the federal health service budget with their own money. But poorer tribes, often those on the most remote reservations, far away from city hospitals, are stuck with grossly substandard care. The agency itself describes a “rationed health care system.”

The sad fact is an old fact, too.

The U.S. has an obligation, based on a 1787 agreement between tribes and the government, to provide American Indians with free health care on reservations. But that promise has not been kept. About one-third more is spent per capita on health care for felons in federal prison, according to 2005 data from the health service.

In Washington, a few lawmakers have tried to bring attention to the broken system as Congress attempts to improve health care for millions of other Americans. But tightening budgets and the relatively small size of the American Indian population have worked against them.

“It is heartbreaking to imagine that our leaders in Washington do not care, so I must believe that they do not know,” Joe Garcia, president of the National Congress of American Indians, said in his annual state of Indian nations’ address in February.

Health in Indian country

When it comes to health and disease in Indian country, the statistics are staggering.

American Indians have an infant death rate that is 40 percent higher than the rate for whites. They are twice as likely to die from diabetes, 60 percent more likely to have a stroke, 30 percent more likely to have high blood pressure and 20 percent more likely to have heart disease.

American Indians have disproportionately high death rates from unintentional injuries and suicide, and a high prevalence of risk factors for obesity, substance abuse, sudden infant death syndrome, teenage pregnancy, liver disease and hepatitis.

While campaigning on Indian reservations, presidential candidate Barack Obama cited this statistic: After Haiti, men on the impoverished Pine Ridge and Rosebud Reservations in South Dakota have the lowest life expectancy in the Western Hemisphere.

Those on reservations qualify for Medicare and Medicaid coverage. But a report by the Government Accountability Office last year found that many American Indians have not applied for those programs because of lack of access to the sign-up process; they often live far away or lack computers. The report said that some do not sign up because they believe the government already has a duty to provide them with health care.

The office of minority health at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, which oversees the Indian Health Service, notes on its Web site that American Indians “frequently contend with issues that prevent them from receiving quality medical care. These issues include cultural barriers, geographic isolation, inadequate sewage disposal and low income.”

Indeed, Indian health clinics often are ill-equipped to deal with such high rates of disease, and poor clinics do not have enough money to focus on preventive care. The main problem is a lack of federal money. American Indian programs are not a priority for Congress, which provided the health service with $3.6 billion this budget year.

Officials at the health service say they can’t legally comment on specific cases such as Ta’Shon’s. But they say they are doing the best they can with the money they have — about 54 cents on the dollar they need.

One of the main problems is that many clinics must “buy” health care from larger medical facilities outside the health service because the clinics are not equipped to handle more serious medical conditions. The money that Congress provides for those contract health care services is rarely sufficient, forcing many clinics to make “life or limb” decisions that leave lower-priority patients out in the cold.

“The picture is much bigger than what the Indian Health Service can do,” says Doni Wilder, an official at the agency’s headquarters in Rockville, Md., and the former director of the agency’s Northwestern region. “Doctors every day in our organization are making decisions about people not getting cataracts removed, gall bladders fixed.”

On the Standing Rock Reservation in North Dakota, Indian Health Service staff say they are trying to improve conditions. They point out recent improvements to their clinic, including a new ambulance bay. But in interviews on the reservation, residents were eager to share stories about substandard care.

Rhonda Sandland says she couldn’t get help for her advanced frostbite until she threatened to kill herself because of the pain — several months after her first appointment. She says she was exposed to temperatures at more than 50 below, and her hands turned purple. She eventually couldn’t dress herself, she says, and she visited the clinic over and over again, sometimes in tears.

“They still wouldn’t help with the pain so I just told them that I had a plan,” she said. “I was going to sleep in my car in the garage.”

She says the clinic then decided to remove five of her fingers, but a visiting doctor from Bismarck, N.D., intervened, giving her drugs instead. She says she eventually lost the tops of her fingers and the top layer of skin.

The same clinic failed to diagnose Victor Brave Thunder with congestive heart failure, giving him Tylenol and cough syrup when he told a doctor he was uncomfortable and had not slept for several days. He eventually went to a hospital in Bismarck, which immediately admitted him. But he had permanent damage to his heart, which he attributed to delays in treatment. Brave Thunder, 54, died in April while waiting for a heart transplant.

“You can talk to anyone on the reservation and they all have a story,” says Tracey Castaway, whose sister, Marcella Buckley, said she was in $40,000 of debt because of treatment for stomach cancer.

Buckley says she visited the clinic for four years with stomach pains and was given a variety of diagnoses, including the possibility of a tapeworm and stress-related stomachaches. She was eventually told she had Stage 4 cancer that had spread throughout her body.

Ron His Horse is Thunder, chairman of the Standing Rock tribe, says his remote reservation on the border between North Dakota and South Dakota can’t attract or maintain doctors who know what they are doing. Instead, he says, “We get old doctors that no one else wants or new doctors who need to be trained.”

His Horse is Thunder often travels to Washington to lobby for more money and attention, but he acknowledges that improvements are tough to come by.

“We are not one congruent voting bloc in any one state or area,” he said. “So we don’t have the political clout.”

Money runs out

On another reservation 200 miles north of Standing Rock, Ardel Baker, a member of North Dakota’s Three Affiliated Tribes, knows all too well the truth behind the joke about money running out.

Baker went to her local clinic with severe chest pains and was sent by ambulance to a hospital more than an hour away. It wasn’t until she got there that she noticed she had a note attached to her, written on U.S. Department of Health and Human Services letterhead.

“Understand that Priority 1 care cannot be paid for at this time due to funding issues,” the letter read. “A formal denial letter has been issued.”

She lived, but she says she later received a bill for more than $5,000.

“That really epitomizes the conflict that we have,” says Robert McSwain, deputy director of the Indian Health Service. “We have to move the patient out, it’s an emergency. We need to get them care.”

It was too late for Harriet Archambault, according to the chairman of the Senate Indian Affairs Committee, Democratic Sen. Byron Dorgan of North Dakota, who has told her story more than once in the Senate.

Dorgan says Archambault died in 2007 after her medicine for hypertension ran out and she couldn’t get an appointment to refill it at the nearest clinic, 18 miles away. She drove to the clinic five times and failed to get an appointment before she died.

Dorgan’s swath of the country is the hardest hit in terms of Indian health care. Many reservations there are poor, isolated, devoid of economic development opportunities and subject to long, harsh winters — making it harder for the health service to recruit doctors to practice there.

While the agency overall has an 18 percent vacancy rate for doctors, that rate jumps to 38 percent for the region that includes the Dakotas. That region also has a 29 percent vacancy rate for dentists, and officials and patients report there is almost no preventive dental care. Routine procedures such as root canals are rarely seen here. If there’s a problem with a tooth, it is simply pulled.

Dorgan has led efforts in Congress to bring attention to the issue. After many years of talking to frustrated patients at home in North Dakota, he says he believes the problems are systemic within the embattled agency: incompetent staffers are transferred instead of fired; there are few staff to handle complaints; and, in some cases, he says, there is a culture of intimidation within field offices charged with overseeing individual clinics.

The senator has also probed waste at the agency.

A 2008 GAO report, along with a follow-up report this year, accused the Indian Health Service of losing almost $20 million in equipment, including vehicles, X-ray and ultrasound equipment and numerous laptops. The agency says some of the items were later found.

Dorgan persuaded Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., to consider an American Indian health improvement bill last year, and the bill passed in the Senate. It would have directed Congress to provide about $35 billion for health programs over the next 10 years, including better access to health care services, screening and mental health programs. A similar bill died in the House, though, after it became entangled in an abortion dispute.

The growing political clout of some remote reservations may bring some attention to health care woes. Last year’s Democratic presidential primary played out in part in the Dakotas and Montana, where both Obama and Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton became the first presidential candidates to aggressively campaign on American Indian reservations there. Both politicians promised better health care.

Obama’s budget for 2010 includes an increase of $454 million, or about 13 percent, over this year. Also, the stimulus bill he signed this year provided for construction and improvements to clinics.

Ta’Shon’s story

Back in Montana, Ta’Shon’s parents are doing what they can to bring awareness to the issue. They have prepared a slideshow with pictures of her brief life; she is seen dressed up in traditional regalia she wore for dance competitions with a bright smile on her face. Family members approached Dorgan at a Senate field hearing on American Indian health care after her death in 2006, hoping to get the little girl’s story out.

“She was a gift, so bright and comforting,” says Ada White of her niece, whom she calls her granddaughter according to Crow tradition. “I figure she was brought here for a reason.”

Nearby, the clinic on the Crow reservation seems mostly empty, aside from the crowded waiting room. The hospital is down several doctors, a shortage that management attributes recruitment difficulties and the remote location.

Diane Wetsit, a clinical coordinator, said she finds it difficult to think about the congressional bailout for Wall Street.

“I have a hard time with that when I walk down the hallway and see what happens here,” she says.


Related Blog Posts


About VotingFemale

I am a female voter, as my blog name implies. I vote for conservatives. I am a political opponent of Leftists, Progressives, Socialists, Marxists, and Communists.
This entry was posted in ABC, ACORN, American Socialism, CBS, CNN, James Carville, MSNBC, Native Americans Against Obama, Obama, Pelosi, PUMA, Racism and tagged , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

487 Responses to Obama Health Care; A Native American Warning, the Ta’Shon Story

  1. samiam60 says:

    Good morning to all and hope all is well in that we are still a free people. God Bless America!

  2. VotingFemale says:

    Good Morning Samiam!

  3. VotingFemale says:

    the Grey Wolf has arrived…

  4. rosehips says:

    Good morning peeps.

    What a tragic story. The Natives Americans of this country continue to get shafted by a system that exploits and dehumanizes.

    Look at the natives down in the four corners who have been fighting Peabody Coal for decades. The Navajo and Hopi were relocated and moved from their ancestral lands to trailers where they failed to thrive in many cases. Their lands are polluted and their health compromised.

    Our native people have been marginalized.
    Obama is promoting preventive health care and environmental protection. These policies will help to prevent tragedies like Ta’ shons.

    This video is pure exploitation from a phony group. I’d love to see who produced it and where the money came from.

    VF, what would the alternative be for Ta’ Shon? If her family is poor, there would be no care for her at all unless there is some sort of socialized health care.

    People get misdiagnosed all the time. Even rich people. I am not defending the Indian Health Services as having quality care.

    Is Obama trying to undermine the services provided to Native Americans? How so?

  5. samiam60 says:

    Good morning VF good to see you. It seems things are moving quickly in our Country. With that the American people are beginning to see just how inexperienced Obama is. Perhaps the wake up call for America will also come as quickly.

  6. samhenry says:

    Followed by the black dog who is truly devastated by this story. When I lived in Canada in the 1960s, I worked for the Red Cross Society. I corresponded with Native Americans in remote regions where all they had were outpost hospitals run by nurses. I was in the bill collection area. It was eye-opening.

    IMO every government on earth has a group of people that you could call “the throw away people.” They are very often the least affluent and least well-educated – a perfect recipe for individuals who will not or cannot speak out for themselves. The elderly of the US, already suffering high cost and low services,will be the first ignored after native Americans.

    Any President who can frequently talk about the rich and the poor will very comfortably allow there to be an official “tiered layer” of government services.

  7. VotingFemale says:

    You seem to have a burr up your socialist fanny this morning.

    Oh and Good Morning, Rose

    Rose declares…

    This video is pure exploitation from a phony group. I’d love to see who produced it and where the money came from.

  8. VotingFemale says:

    and you first attack it then state…

    …you do not personally know who produced it or where the money came from after you declare this video as “pure exploitation” from a “phony group.”

    Why don’t you just trot your fanny over to


    and tell them what you just told me.

  9. rosehips says:

    The Natives in Canada are marginalized too. Their most polluting industries (and they are worse than the US) are situated near reservations and the health of the natives is compromised. I receive emails all the time from a white warrior who devotes his life to seeking justice for the natives of Canada.

    I would love to hear proposals for a health care system that will work. Who amongst us (besides foxy) thinks our current system is working?

    That Dave guy had lots of criticisms but unless you think that its ok to deny people basic health care, I don’t think you can support the status quo. As costs continue to climb, the middle class gets squeezed out. We have subsidies for the poor. The rich can take care of themselves but what to do about the middle class?

  10. Taini says:

    Good morning everyone.
    VF excellent example of what is to come to the rest of America should this farce of government run health care for everyone get passed.
    When are people going to figure it out??
    The government is not the answer, they are the problem and continue to be the problem.

  11. VotingFemale says:

    see… I knew Rose would have this knee jerk reaction to this blogpost… she and I have been down this road before…

    but… I think you need to update your research and views, Rose.

    This is not a pre-election video.

  12. rosehips says:

    lol @ a burr up my fanny. vf, I have gone to that website and it looks like pure bs to me.

  13. samhenry says:

    VF – at the Stanford University Website I found the following:


    Here is what the US government has done TO Native Americans.

    C. Indian Self-Determination and Self-Governance

    In the late 1970s and 1980s American Indian lawyers shifted their fight to the
    courtrooms, claiming treaty violations and the undervaluing of tribal lands. The Nixon
    administration pushed through the Indian Self-Determination and Education Act of 1975,
    and the next twenty years saw tribal development through many growing pains, but with the ultimate goal of self-sufficiency. This Act authorized Indian tribes/nations to administer their own programs, and the Indian Health Service to grant moneys for operation of health services. This Act is a major force for Indian decision making and self-governance today. (Some Indians, however, believed that “self- determination” was another disguise for “termination,” in that the federal government was attempting to terminate its responsibility for providing health care and other services promised by treaty, legislation, and judicial review (Nabokov, 1991, p. 38
    IMO this is worse that denial of direct government health care.

  14. rosehips says:

    and why do people keep acting like Obama wants to run health care. Is anyone listening to his proposals? It is a far cry from a socialized health care system.

    good moring taini!

    taini said: VF excellent example of what is to come to the rest of America should this farce of government run health care for everyone get passed.

  15. samhenry says:

    My fear is that the government in its infinite wisdom will give the health care over to the states for administration.

  16. Taini says:

    When people in prison get better healthcare than Natives or when Illegal aliens get benefits they are not entitled too—money that should be used to those it was promised too, what do you think needs to be changed with this system?

  17. samiam60 says:

    Morning Rose, Taini, Samhenry and VF of course. Rose how long have you been on the Obama Cheerleading Squad? You just seem so very defensive of him even after proof after proof is submitted to open your eyes. I just don’t understand your thinking is all. No personal attack intended Rose, I just don’t get it.

  18. VotingFemale says:

    Rose you can also make your questions known directly to Debi at:


    where the video in the blogpost originates.

    Debi is the Blogger who owns and runs:




  19. rosehips says:

    So many people want it all. They want the very best care. But if that were available to all of us, we would all be bankrupt. If it costs a million dollars to save my life and I am paying $180/mo for insurance (which is what the state of Wash. charged me for health insurance when I first lost my job), who pays the difference? Of course all the other payers do. But if people are living longer and new technolgy is developed that can save lives, albeit at skyhigh costs, how can we continue to sustain a system without jacking up premiums? So are we going to continue to squeeze out the middle class? I don’t see how this system is so great. Can anyone defend it, or give an alternative that will provide quality care for everyone?

  20. VotingFemale says:

    Obama is a Socialist… who is bent on Nationalizing Health Care… and he will say anything to achieve that end… including lying about the real agenda… and you would have us BELIEVE what?


    rosehips says

    and why do people keep acting like Obama wants to run health care. Is anyone listening to his proposals? It is a far cry from a socialized health care system.

  21. samhenry says:

    Technology and self-help motivation of the younger generation on reservations has helped them reach out to Congress for assistance in overcoming bad health care under the IHS (Indian Health Service).

    I found this and other pertinent information on the Dakota Lakota Nakota website


    One footnote: About 5 years ago on TV I saw a program on diabetes in Native Americans. They have an especially high incidence of it. Health officials figured out that a return to a Native American diet would correct this and it did. It is a transition and is difficult. It was mentioned on this web page as well.

  22. Taini says:

    Congress awards itself the pet projects they want, yet always seem to fail on promises made to uphold the best interest of the people as a whole.
    When our tax dollars are used and exploited for less than noble causes or projects, while American’s are going hungry or suffering and we take second place to political paybacks, I would say that should explain it all.
    Power and control is all important to them and we the people, well, we are only good enough to cast a vote and are merely strung along the path of hope that is in reality, a delusion.

  23. samiam60 says:

    I wonder just how many of the German people never knew of the death camps till it was too late?

  24. samhenry says:

    Native Americans (at least the Lakotas, etc. are seeking the removal of IHS facilities from the reservations and newer facilities properly staffed outside the reservation.

    The sell out of the Natves comes when the government gives them self-determination in areas where their being hooked into larger systems is readily available.

  25. VotingFemale says:

    Rose, you cynicism is showing… and your unquestioning faith is too… thatObama should be trusted to do the right thing… the people should give him the power to do what he wants based on trust and faith.

    No thank you…

    And why do you think Obama is in such an all fired rush to push the Obamacare bill through congress?

    I know why… and so do most people who know what is going on.

    Trust… is a powerful thing and harmful when misplaced.

    Obama has not earned trust…

  26. samhenry says:

    website for Indian Health Service


    This is also of interest:

    Durango, Colorado News – The Durango Herald
    June 17, 2009

    Sebelius to boost Native American health care
    Plans to challenge Congress to make issue a priority
    by Mary Clare Jalonick
    Associated Press Write
    Article Last Updated; Wednesday, June 17, 2009
    WASHINGTON – Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius says she will launch a new multiyear effort to improve health care across the nation for Native Americans, which she calls a “historic failure.”
    custom residential construction

    Katie Ogier – The Wells Group
    Click image to enlarge


    Sebelius said Tuesday she will challenge Congress to make the back-burner issue a priority.

    Part of that strategy would be to recruit more providers for reservations and to focus more on preventive care, which is often neglected in Native American health clinics as dollars run out.

    “(We need to) begin to lay the groundwork with Congress right now to say here’s where we need to be,” she said. “I think often the tribal issues just fade away.”

    She said her department also is increasing the size of the U.S. Public Health Service Commissioned Corps, which dispatches doctors to reservations as part of its mission.

    The U.S. has an obligation, based on a 1787 agreement between tribes and the government, to provide Native Americans with free health care on reservations.

    But the troubled Indian Health Service has about half of the money it needs, leaving poorer tribes in more remote areas with severely underfunded facilities and substandard care.

    Tribes that are more wealthy often are able to supplement the federal budget with their own dollars.

    “Some of the Indian health facilities are in great shape, some are really in terrible shape,” Sebelius said.

    President Barack Obama campaigned on Native American reservations during his Democratic primary last year and promised better health care there.

    His budget for 2010 includes an increase of $454 million, or about 13 percent, and the stimulus bill he signed earlier this year provided for construction and improvements to severalclinics.

    Sebelius said that generous increase would still be far from what the agency needs.

    “One of my challenges to the new head of the Indian Health Service is that we need a multiyear strategy, we need an end goal,” she said.

    She said health disparities between minority groups and whites are “unconscionable.”

    “The most severe disparity between quality care and what goes on with health outcomes is in the Native American population,” she said.

  27. samiam60 says:

    African Americans say in recent poll that race relations have not improved under Obama.


  28. samhenry says:

    citation for the above article


    VF thank you for this post. I have learned so much. You know I love Native American peoples, their traditions and wisdom.

  29. rosehips says:

    VF, I have emailed Debi. We will see if I get a response….

  30. VotingFemale says:

    And explain to me Rose, dear…

    Why should I trust a man who hides his long form birth certificate, education records, and health records… and spends more that one million dollars on lawyers to continue hiding those records from public eyes?

    Transparency is what it is… as is lack of transparency.

    My trust in Obama is zero…

  31. Taini says:

    Our Nations Policies are a Total DO OVER. They should perhaps begin with the promises made to the Native American tribes and then work forward.
    But of course that will never happen. The varied personal agendas and self interest that each and every one of those elected to public office carry with them as they go to vote on a bill, must be appeased to win their vote. These days, only a promise of a kick back or a grant of a pet pork project will sway them to do the ‘right thing’.
    Corruption is at an all time high in DC!

  32. samiam60 says:

    Soooo much for Change:


    Wait till all the Auto Dealers and plants close up.

  33. samhenry says:

    It occurs to me that the Director of Health and Human Services is creating a monster – a substantial growth in administrative services. This taken together with the Obama Health Care initiatives will bankrupt this nation unless the stop fooling the voters and Congress with their plan that arrived with cost figures. Administratin and cost – two areas that need to be carefully considered before presenting legislation to the Congress. In short, we need to slow down and get priorities established so an intelligent vote can be entered into.

  34. VotingFemale says:

    You should have done your homework before making unsubstantiated allegations about this video…

    rosehips says

    VF, I have emailed Debi. We will see if I get a response….

  35. VotingFemale says:

    Thank you dear…

    samhenry says

    citation for the above article


    VF thank you for this post. I have learned so much. You know I love Native American peoples, their traditions and wisdom.

  36. samhenry says:

    Agitated barking – Woof, Woof, Woof – has anyone read what I’ve thrown up that makes the situation more widespread and dire than the vid can show?

  37. samhenry says:

    Sorry VF – you are cat quick. You DID see my posts. Merci

  38. rosehips says:

    sami, I would be very surprised if the poll had said that race relations had improved.

    with all the race baiting and accusations of racism I have read, it is a wonder we are not seeing an all out race war in the streets this summer. Thank God we are not experiencing a sweltering summer…so far.

    sami said: African Americans say in recent poll that race relations have not improved under Obama.

  39. VotingFemale says:

    I will add that article to the above blogpost, SamH

    and yes… this is a valid issue and Obama made promises he is not keeping… I do not trust Obama based on his track record…

  40. samhenry says:

    Woof – thanks

  41. Taini says:

    I heard on the news last night that 89% of Americans are happy with their health care coverage.
    If Nobama REALLY was interested in helping others and not furthering his Marxist plans for “perfecting” America into a European dictatorship, that 11% is what he would be focused on.
    That he is not doing so, tells the story very well. He finds it much better to claim it is a ‘crisis’ so he can push his left thinking agenda even further.

  42. samiam60 says:

    Rose said:
    with all the race baiting and accusations of racism I have read, it is a wonder we are not seeing an all out race war in the streets this summer. Thank God we are not experiencing a sweltering summer…so far.

    What Race Baiting are you referring to Rose?
    Do you have a link or source for this accusation?

  43. rosehips says:

    vf, I did not know that homework was required to make an accusation. I have however done homework on this website and group. I spent considerable time on it the last time you posted a link to their website. They are a very mysterious group. I think they only exist as a name with a person or two behind it. They have changed their website. The guy who I believe founded it is Mike Graham. Have you seen this?

    We discussed this group on your previous blog months ago. I provided a link showing how they were much about entitlement. I didn’t think it was really a group that most here would embrace.

    vf: You should have done your homework before making unsubstantiated allegations about this video…

  44. Taini says:

    Thanks you for the posts. You have shown that promises made are never or rarely kept by the government, unless it serves their agenda to do so.

  45. rosehips says:

    and sorry sh and taini for not addressing your comments. My mind is racing. I need to slow down…

  46. Taini says:

    The union will ‘save’ the auto industry right? lol

  47. samhenry says:

    VF I think that the link to the Lakota web site is also important. As you well know they have always striven for the very best and in education they have achieved it.

    And look at the great achievement of the Chickasaw Nation:


    Obama cannot visit the Chickasaw nation because they went tobacco free as of May 11, 2009 -HAAAAAAAAAAA

  48. rosehips says:

    sami, I don’t want to get into race baiting. I am talking about accusations of Obama being a racist. I don’t think I need to provide links for you. I’m sure you know where to find them.

  49. samhenry says:

    Taini and Sami – I too am sorry not to have said hello to you. I have been a woman posessed trying to dig up some information from American Indian and US gov sources. Taini thank you for your kind remarks. Sami has recently thrown his seal of approval over all of my comments recently. TX again Sami.

    Dear Rose – I have also been busy reading your brave comments and challenges. I know they are appreciated.

  50. samiam60 says:

    Taini, yes the Unions have saved the Auto industry with ownership and slashed benefits. lol

  51. Taini says:

    As I see it, the important issue is the fact that government promised health care for Native tribes is sub-standard. That is a fact, regardless of who produced a video.
    That our current government administration wishes to extend this type of ‘care’ across America and pretty much ‘force’ us to accept it, is just unacceptable.
    As I stated earlier, Government is not the answer, they are the problem.

  52. samiam60 says:

    Rose no baiting intended here. Just wondered where you came up with the information is all. Do you not usually ask for source’s and links?

    Rose says:

    sami, I don’t want to get into race baiting. I am talking about accusations of Obama being a racist. I don’t think I need to provide links for you. I’m sure you know where to find them.

  53. rosehips says:

    sh, I love that website. I go there on occasion to check out their Chickasaw word of the day:
    Chickasaw: okaami
    English: to wash one’s face
    Part of Speech: verb

    I think I need to go bathe. lol.

    my textbook arrived by UPS yesterday. Fundamentals of Business Law. My first lesson is to “peruse” 6 chapters on Contract Law, over 100 pages of small type, double columns of text. Yikes!

  54. samhenry says:

    Taini – Most Americans are happy with their health care until they have a catastrophic illness. With an aging population long term health care costs will skyrocket.

    What we need is not a revamp of the entire health care system but:

    1) A program of long term care support.
    2) Establishment of clinics for the poor that will provide preventive care as well as acute to take the burden off emergency rooms.

    The rest will fal into adjusted program under #1. I don’t think there will be a new health care system this year and that will give us enough time to work away from his plan.

  55. VotingFemale says:

    Rose… your unfounded declaration of the video in this blogpost being exploitation and phony… all with out substantiation… led to the addition of the news article to the blogpost found at this location


  56. rosehips says:

    Taini, I am in agreement that Native health care is sub-standard. I just don’t think Obama is to blame.

  57. Taini says:

    I fully expect to get an ‘owner” discount when next we go to buy a new auto. lol

  58. samhenry says:

    Taini – I am the confident and quasi dictatorial voice of an elder and you well know that in Native American culture, we predominate. However, I am fast approaching the age when Health Care of any kind will no longer be effective. Then I will be left under a tree to die while the tribe moves on to new hunting grounds.

  59. Taini says:

    I don’t think anyone is blaming him for the sub-standard care? Where did you see that?

  60. samiam60 says:

    GM ( Government Motors) and Chrysler are now selling off vehicles well below cost. Its called the Obama Discount.

  61. samhenry says:

    Taini – my last comment should have ended with an LOL.

  62. samhenry says:

    Of course you visit the Chickasaw Nation website daily. Oh, Rosie, you are uniquely wonderful. Never change and good luck with contract law. Small text gives us all headaches. Too bad it was not on disk so you could have enlarged the type.

  63. samiam60 says:

    Looks like I am going to need another distemper shot today. Thanks Rose. lol

  64. rosehips says:

    This is from the website I linked above: http://www.unitednativeamerica.com/

    America’s racist history was about more than
    water fountains and bath rooms
    or where you sat on a bus

    The plight of American Indians throughout the history of America was determined by many factors. Forcing Indians to live on reservations by the federal government was not enough.

    State and city governments set up laws ordering Indians to stay out or get permission before they crossed a state line or entered a city. Indians were not allowed inside a city after dark. Some of these laws are still on the books today around our country.

    It’s true American history, with all this being forced on them, American Indians are a very proud people. The dark cloud is fading over the Indian community, the dark past of how America truly came about is now being told.

  65. GOOD MORNING One and All. VF, great post and speaks to my heart as in, “WHO’S NEXT?”

    I wonder how much of the stimulus $$$$ were sent to Native Americans?

    This is a total drive by, but this song came to mind, so here it is.

    Take care One and All brothers and sisters.

  66. VotingFemale says:

    Just say no to Smoking Obama Hopium!

    samhenry says

    VF I think that the link to the Lakota web site is also important. As you well know they have always striven for the very best and in education they have achieved it.

    And look at the great achievement of the Chickasaw Nation:


    Obama cannot visit the Chickasaw nation because they went tobacco free as of May 11, 2009 -HAAAAAAAAAAA

  67. rosehips says:

    for the record. I am an advocate for Native American Rights. I help to form the Big Mountain Support Group in Binghampton NY back in the 80’s. I have much respect and admiration for Native Americans.

    I did not mean to discredit the little native girl who died. I’m sorry if my accusations were rash. I guess I am flashing today vf. You know how I do that.

    sh, lol. you are so funny.

    sh said: Of course you visit the Chickasaw Nation website daily

  68. Taini says:

    It is good that you face your mortality with good cheer.
    We all shall face that time or that tree, and me personally, hope that I will face it as well as you.
    I think allot of the health care issues goes back to people that have lost faith in the hereafter, or what ever they wish to term it, and who truly fear death and wish to live as long as possible, no matter who gets hurt to achieve this goal.
    Some call it heaven, or walk with the ancestors, but it shows faith after death.
    IMO, Mankind’s vanity is a corruption of the soul and a perverted and twisted way to live.

  69. rosehips says:

    and vf, thanks for the news article. It is good and tells the tragic story of a system that failed a beautiful little girl.

    That is why I call for health care reform. And for anyone who does not know, I advocate for a single payer system.

  70. samhenry says:

    Rose we have together tested the flash tolerance of our moderator in the space of two days. VF will have to disappear to the golf course soon for a spiritual session in the grassy wilderness chasing the sacred orb.

  71. rosehips says:

    wg, thanks for the link but it says invalid parameters! dang. I was so much looking forward to rufus. I may have to go to youtube…

  72. samhenry says:

    Rose – you may have to download another iteration of flash player at the adobe site. I had to yesterday for the same reason.

  73. rosehips says:

    Taini, there is much truth in your words. I believe in faith and fate. I don’t like to depend on medicine to keep me alive, but like most I would do it when faced with my mortality. We are prisoners of our own society and our own doing…

    Taini said: I think allot of the health care issues goes back to people that have lost faith in the hereafter, or what ever they wish to term it, and who truly fear death and wish to live as long as possible, no matter who gets hurt to achieve this goal.
    Some call it heaven, or walk with the ancestors, but it shows faith after death.
    IMO, Mankind’s vanity is a corruption of the soul and a perverted and twisted way to live.

  74. Taini says:

    I must run some errands, but wanted you all to know I enjoyed the conversations this morning. Hope you all have a nice day.

  75. rosehips says:

    ok sh, thanks I’ll check it out re adobe…

  76. rosehips says:

    Taini, it was fun talking with ya. have a great day!

  77. samiam60 says:

    I too must leave for some important stuff that wolves do. Ya’ll have a Great Day and don’t let the lib bugs bite.

  78. rosehips says:

    And I find it difficult to get off the hopium. It helps my mind to cope with all the aweful things that happen. Is anyone else waiting for the other shoe to drop?

  79. samiam60 says:

    Rose the other shoe is in Bidens mouth but I am sure it will drop soon.

  80. rosehips says:

    sami, I’m glad we could all dialogue this morning. It was fun.

    did we lose vf?

    sh, you still there? I can not stay on much longer either.

  81. rosehips says:

    sami, lol @ at biden’s shoe…

  82. samhenry says:

    Of course – the other nuclear shoe, the other economic shoe, the other Iranian shoe – which one do you mean my dear?

    I, too must away

    Dog overboard

  83. Taini says:

    I don’t fear death, but I do fear extreme unending pain.
    As I see it, technolgy to keep one alive even when their quality of life is limited, at its end, is not something I would want.
    Just give me some pain killers, should the need arise, and leave me alone to complete the circle of life, is my wish when the time comes.

  84. rosehips says:

    sh, all them shoes and other ones too. I’ve got a lot of shoes. lol

  85. VotingFemale says:

    Yes… I detected condition “flash” dear…

    thank you for your capitulation…

    rosehips says

    I did not mean to discredit the little native girl who died. I’m sorry if my accusations were rash. I guess I am flashing today vf. You know how I do that.

  86. samiam60 says:

    Taini I feel the same way about a prolonged siege of pain. I have no fear of death what so ever. It’s the how that is troubling.

  87. rosehips says:

    taini, I so agree. see you later!

    taini said:
    I don’t fear death, but I do fear extreme unending pain.
    As I see it, technolgy to keep one alive even when their quality of life is limited, at its end, is not something I would want.
    Just give me some pain killers, should the need arise, and leave me alone to complete the circle of life, is my wish when the time comes.

  88. rosehips says:

    vf, I am glad you know me and understand me. You know how I feel about native americans. I think they are marginalized and this little girl is an example. She is an angel and I’m sure she is with the Creator.

    vf said: Yes… I detected condition “flash” dear…

    thank you for your capitulation

  89. VotingFemale says:

    Thank you for your input William

    William // June 25, 2009 at 10:42 am

    This is really disturbing… hope the government would take immediate actions to save the life of the innocent and helpless

  90. samhenry says:

    Taini and Rose Personally, I have arranged to live forever BECAUSE I fear the pain – also the disappointment if there is not a hereafter. I’m such the control freak when I’m not diverted into flash mode.LOL

  91. samhenry says:

    Dog decidedly overboard….

  92. rosehips says:

    sh, don’t worry about the pain. Thank god we don’t live forever. That would be the worst trick god could play on us. What if we were told that the heavens are full and we must all stay alive on earth now? what a scary thought.

    and I did see your comment about vf’s “flash tolerance” You are too funny girl.

    sh said: Rose we have together tested the flash tolerance of our moderator in the space of two days. VF will have to disappear to the golf course soon for a spiritual session in the grassy wilderness chasing the sacred orb.

  93. VotingFemale says:


    I have OBama’s track record to go on now…

    there is no basis for my trusting him.

    Taini says

    I heard on the news last night that 89% of Americans are happy with their health care coverage.
    If Nobama REALLY was interested in helping others and not furthering his Marxist plans for “perfecting” America into a European dictatorship, that 11% is what he would be focused on.
    That he is not doing so, tells the story very well. He finds it much better to claim it is a ‘crisis’ so he can push his left thinking agenda even further.

  94. VotingFemale says:

    no golf till next week… and the ongoing weather here is so depressing…

    but sooner or later that too will change…

    That is CHANGE I can actually BELIEVE IN


  95. rosehips says:

    Taini, I only saw the very first part of Obama’s “infomercial” last night but he states that our insurance could double again in the next 10 years because of out of control costs. Do you think 89% are happy at that prospect? We need to do something or do you think it should just be left alone?

  96. Foxwood says:


    To bad I have to go back to bed. Rose did you read my comments last night on Bobby?

  97. VotingFemale says:

    Ta’Shon Rain Little Light, a victim of Nationalized Health Care…. aka a single payer system

    Just Say NO to OBAMA & the SOCIALISTS

    they can not even deliver to Native Americans…

  98. VotingFemale says:

    So? the planet “COULD” be hit with an asteroid the size of Texas in the next 10 years…

    Businesses risk going out of business for failing to offer viable price vs value to customers…

    some well chosen regulations to stop the price gouging would be indicated.

    such as no more involvement by Pharmaceutical Companies running the FDA ala billions they spend and charge back to fast track shove their products through the vetting process which is supposed to be the job of the FDA…

    There are things out of control, cost wise… fix that… do not use that as an excuse to shove Nationalizing of Health Care up the fanny of the Country.

    Rose says

    …he states that our insurance could double again in the next 10 years because of out of control costs…

  99. Taini says:

    I think Obama’s plans are to make that 89% just like the 11% in need. That is what will further his agenda and power.
    His goal is to destroy those that worked to ‘have’ and replace them with those that did not earn it and ‘don’t have’. It really is very simple once you understand his ideology.
    I’m out the door now. bbl

    rosehips // June 25, 2009 at 11:02 am

    Taini, I only saw the very first part of Obama’s “infomercial” last night but he states that our insurance could double again in the next 10 years because of out of control costs. Do you think 89% are happy at that prospect? We need to do something or do you think it should just be left alone?

  100. VotingFemale says:

    There is only one way to fix the problem…

    do the hard work not the easy fix which will not work

    fix the out of reasonable prices charged for health care by health care providers…

    it is out of control….

    why does it cost one thousand dollars to have a wisdom tooth extracted in this country?

    I say insource health care providers into this country from other countries…. let them be here as visa foreign nationals on a rotating basis thus they stay foreign nationals here for the work alone… as independents.

    bring them here to deliver health care and watch american health care providers go ape s*it…

    and an insurance company is not a “provider” they sell insurance…

    providers are doctors and nurses and pharmacies

  101. rosehips says:

    sigh. It is all so depressing to me. I really don’t think you can fix our health care system. Might as well keep it as is and let those of us who can’t afford insurance, or don’t work for company’s who can afford to cover us anymore, die or go bankrupt and probably end up dying on the streets. I think I’d rather die around a burn barrel with a marshmallow stick than to vegetate in a state run holding facility. what a life.

  102. VotingFemale says:

    it costs more money than we have for health care for all to receive good health care… and Obama does not have a fix… just an excuse to Nationalize Health Care… which is worse that what we have now…

    and people are not dying on the steps of hospitals for lack of health insurance… if an uninsured gets sick or injured… they go to the emergency room and get health care…

    that is how that works right now… today… long before Obama got a job as a Community Organizer at ACORN

  103. rosehips says:

    VF, thank you for providing some real suggestions for fixes to get costs down. Obama pointed out how efficiently the Mayo Clinic is run. Medicare does work to a certain extent; it ain’t perfect, but it can be improved to work adequately. the truth is that I would be happy with adequate care and catastrophic coverage. I will take care of my own needs unless I get in an accident. I would be willing to sign a contract that if I get cancer I will use my own money to try to fight it. I would try some radical dietary or herbal remedy (like Essiac tea). I will work to stop the pollution that contribute to so much cancer. I think that is one way to fight high health care costs. Does anyone wonder why asthma is skyhigh in our country? duh. Those kind of health problems are increasing and are preventable like diabetes, heart disease, lung cancer etc…

  104. Foxwood says:

    Can’t sleep, The Supreme Leader is about to come on anyway.

    Rose said:
    “I am in agreement that Native health care is sub-standard. I just don’t think Obama is to blame.”

    No one ever said that. What is true is that is what socialized health care will look like. What’s so hard to understand about that? Even you admit it’s sub-standard.

  105. VotingFemale says:

    Actually, if the Free Market System was allowed to do what it does… there could be enough money to pay for it all and without increasing tax rates.

    More people employed by Free Market System companies means more revenue for the FED.

    The more they earn the more revenue the FED gets and that is without increasing TAX rates…

    it is simple math…

    35% of a 100,000 dollars a year salary legitimately earned by productive fairly paid worker is twice as much as 35% of a 50,000 dollars a year salary

    but the salaries paid must… MUST Be A Fair Exchange… not an politically inflated salary earned by some UAW auto worker paid $100,000 to put ashtrays in Chevys on an assembly line.

  106. rosehips says:

    vf, I agree. we simply don’t have the money and so many people think we should be entitled to so much. It’s a quandry.
    Even people who pay high premiums and expect the very best care probably are expecting too much. There are many levels of entitlement.

    The emergency room back up for the poor is a horrible option. I think my State of Wash has a good subsidized health insurance system. They should reduce some of the paperwork and buracracy. It is sometimes a nightmare. But I am very fortunate to have coverage if I were ever to need it. I don’t exploit the system. I should go for preventive care more often. I am a walking time bomb, but I usually wait until I have symptoms before I am concerned about my health. I am very fortunate to be a healthy person.
    The state recently decided to drop a considerable amount of people from the program because of budget cuts. More recently I heard they retracted that plan and will raise all of our rates. I think they are going to double some premiums. I can live with that, but I know that will be very hard on some people.

  107. VotingFemale says:

    Obama does not have the answer…

    And anyone who thinks the Iranian Government is EVIL because they are the “victims” of Conservatives (aka Whitey) and they can lead the Iranian Government out of their EVILNESS is either an idiot or worse…

    and you would have us TRUST Obama with nationalizing health care?

    not on your life…

    Let him go run the Government of Somalia and turn it into a Socialist Utopia…

  108. tellitlikeitis says:

    Good morning everyone. Here are some interesting poll numbers.

    African-Americans really like President Obama, but more and more feel that race relations have not gotten better since he took office, a new national poll found.

    Obama’s crowd in Chicago on Election Night, when fewer blacks thought race relations were a serious problem.

    Ninety-six percent of African-Americans approve of how Obama is handling his presidency, according to a CNN/Essence Magazine/Opinion Research Corp. poll released Thursday.

    During the 2008 election, 38 percent of blacks surveyed thought racial discrimination was a serious problem. In the new survey, 55 percent of blacks surveyed believed it was a serious problem, which is about the same level as it was in 2000.

    The poll was conducted May 16-18, in telephone interviews with 505 African-Americans and 501 whites.

  109. rosehips says:

    vf, in agreement about the assembly workers making $100,000. But I feel the same about the CEO’s who make millions and then get additional millions for bonuses. The system went out of control. The free system self destructed. I am a casualty.
    I don’t agree that a free market system can work or can support our health care system and again I know you have suggestions for improvements.

    When I worked, my company provided a dream plan including dental, eyecare, alternative care and they covered the first $1000. or any co-pay, which I think was $10 an office visit. I paid around $76/mo and the company paid the rest. Too bad it didn’t last.
    That company is closing its doors in Colville tomorrow, forever. The party is over.

  110. VotingFemale says:

    It was a problem before he took office… and he promised to fix it… uhhhhh nothing has been done or even started to be done… Obama is too busy trying to put us all on National Health Care… which is what Native Americans are stuck with…

    Foxwood says

    Can’t sleep, The Supreme Leader is about to come on anyway.

    Rose said:
    “I am in agreement that Native health care is sub-standard. I just don’t think Obama is to blame.”

    No one ever said that. What is true is that is what socialized health care will look like. What’s so hard to understand about that? Even you admit it’s sub-standard.

  111. VotingFemale says:

    sorry you cant sleep dear…

  112. tellitlikeitis says:

    This bill has got to be defeated. If this passes it will raise the cost of virtually everything and be the final death blow to this already struggling economy. We must call our congressmen and senators to stop this. The bill is already up to 1600 pages and you know none of them have even read it.

    The speaker, President Barack Obama and White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel were all telephoning undecided or wavering House members in both parties.

    As part of their efforts, Obama added a last-minute Rose Garden event in which he was to make “brief remarks on the importance of passing a historic energy bill that will create new jobs and reduce our dependence on foreign oil.”

    The American Clean Energy and Security Act, better known as the Waxman-Markey bill, would cut greenhouse-gas while promoting renewable energy and energy efficiency


    The measure, which is likely to have a tough go in the Senate, is a linchpin of Obama’s first-year agenda. A victory would give the White House momentum going into a vote on health care later this summer

  113. VotingFemale says:


    Many African Americans are held captive by the Socialists… they need to have people as victims…

    and who in their right mind would not rather be wealthy?

    The socialists dont want people to become wealthy… they want wealthy people to be poor…

    what kind of asshat thinking is that? So only Socialist Political Elites can be wealthy?


    tellitlikeitis says

    Good morning everyone. Here are some interesting poll numbers.

    African-Americans really like President Obama, but more and more feel that race relations have not gotten better since he took office, a new national poll found.

    Obama’s crowd in Chicago on Election Night, when fewer blacks thought race relations were a serious problem.

    Ninety-six percent of African-Americans approve of how Obama is handling his presidency, according to a CNN/Essence Magazine/Opinion Research Corp. poll released Thursday.

    During the 2008 election, 38 percent of blacks surveyed thought racial discrimination was a serious problem. In the new survey, 55 percent of blacks surveyed believed it was a serious problem, which is about the same level as it was in 2000.

    The poll was conducted May 16-18, in telephone interviews with 505 African-Americans and 501 whites.

  114. rosehips says:

    ok tellit, race issues are not all solved. We have major race issues remaining today. Are you joining the revolution? what’s your point?

    I think you are trying to agitate. If not, is your point to place blame or offer viable solutions?

  115. Foxwood says:

    Rose said:
    “I don’t agree that a free market system can work or can support our health care system and again I know you have suggestions for improvements.”

    Free market anything, beats socialized anything anyday. Prove single payer healthcare works in any country. Robert Gibbs couldn’t name a country, because it doesn’t exist.

  116. VotingFemale says:

    OBama plans to disarm the world of nuclear weapons…


    I plan to change the weather to eliminate Tornados and Hurricanes… vote for me!


  117. tellitlikeitis says:

    rosehips, I am not trying to agitate anything. I just posted a poll for everyone to view. That’s all.

  118. Foxwood says:

    Did Telit press a button?

  119. rosehips says:

    VF, what is the alternative for our Indian Nations?

    vf said:
    It was a problem before he took office… and he promised to fix it… uhhhhh nothing has been done or even started to be done… Obama is too busy trying to put us all on National Health Care… which is what Native Americans are stuck with…

  120. VotingFemale says:

    Rose thinks Free Market is evil… greedy selfish people and all that…

  121. Foxwood says:

    Morning Tellit.

  122. tellitlikeitis says:

    President Obama plans to disarm the US of nuclear weapons. Everyone else will keep theirs.

  123. tellitlikeitis says:

    G’ morning foxwood.

  124. Foxwood says:

    “what is the alternative for our Indian Nations?”

    Ok… I give… Let’s all socialize. It’s so wonderful! We all can afford to get kidney transplants now.

  125. Foxwood says:

    Put on your tinfoil caps!
    The Supreme Leader is now on!

  126. VotingFemale says:

    The solution is to fulfill the obligation per the Treaty with the Nations of Native Americans… who were forced to give up this country and live on reservations.

    If ever anyone was owed something by the US Government it is the Native Americans.

    Meanwhile Obama funds $3 million dollar turtle tunnels…

    rosehips says

    VF, what is the alternative for our Indian Nations?

  127. rosehips says:

    Denmark, Sweden, Canada….all superior to US. You can talk all you want about the people who come here to receive care and I’m happy for those people. Some people wait for procedures, some people die waiting. People die here for lack of health care. More people who die waiting in Canada.
    I have lived in Denmark, England and spent many days in Canada. I have used the health care system of Canada. I have seen it work in those countries. No, they are not utopian socialist perfect systems, but again, they are superior to the US system overall. I am not saying the care is better, they just work overall better.

  128. Foxwood says:

    I haven’t figured out that avatar yet Tellit?

  129. Foxwood says:

    Sweet dreams in Candyland dear, I hear it’s so good, you might think of moving there.

  130. Foxwood says:

    Funny Robert Gibbs couldn’t name any. Probably because they don’t exist.

  131. tellitlikeitis says:

    Foxwood, There is nothing to figure out about the avatar. It is just an internet photograph that I decided to use. It looks like a photoshopped picture of a dog with someone elses face on it instead of the dogs.

  132. rosehips says:

    Robert Gibbs means nothing to me foxy. Joe Biden probably can’t name any either. I bet you Hillary can though.

  133. tellitlikeitis, I say it’s a dog with obam’s mouth with lipstick on it.!!!! that is my story and i’m sticking to it.

  134. rosehips says:

    I can deny the existence of God foxy. Does that mean he doesn’t exist?

    my point is just because you say no single payer system works doesn’t mean that none exist. I told you I have lived in countries where it does exist and works better than the US.
    Dismiss that if you will. My patience wears thin with the same old statements that have no basis of truth.
    We are the only industrialized nation without socialized health care or insurance. I contend that most work better than ours. We have an ideological difference, imo. I don’t think arguing the point will get us any farther. Agree?

  135. Foxwood says:

    Gibbs Can’t Name Countries Where Single-Payer System Works

  136. Foxwood says:

    Not worth discussion. You can’t win. The Supreme Leader takes priority.

  137. Foxwood says:

    I did, I won.

  138. VotingFemale says:

    Denmark, Sweden, Canada all live in a world protected by the United States of America…

    What is their national defense budgets?

    please provide this data…

    And why do you think their national defense budgets are so low?

    Because they have the USA to stabilize the world and protect them…

    Those three countries are like grown children living in their parents basements

    rosehips says

    Denmark, Sweden, Canada….all superior to US

  139. tellitlikeitis says:

    Some more news about Iran.

    Date: Wednesday 24th June 2009

    The following email in Farsi we received today (Wednesday 24th june). It is written by a doctor from “Rasul Akram” hospital in Tehran who says that some people were killed not only by one bullet as they found two or three bullets in some bodies, close to one another, showing that shooters used barrage shooting against people and not only a single shot. A 68 year old man had 3 bullets in his body, two on his left shoulder and one in the left side of his stomach. The doctors of the “Rasul Akram”hospital say they had been faced with 38 people killed during last week’s protests. Apparently, police took the corpse of the dead bodies out from the hospital and carried them away by truck. Most of their families still do not know if their children have been killed. Besides, among the corpse there were some 15, 16 years old kids.

    According to the email, the crew of the hospital protested in the street next to the hospital giving out the information about the violence to the people. The photos attached are from this demonstration which appears to have taken place earlier this week.

    -Where s my vote?

    The original email in Farsi:

    من پزشک هستم و در بیمارستان رسول اکرم در خیابان ستارخان مشغول به کارم. دیروز تعداد 38 نفر به دلیل اصابت گلوله در اورژانس بیمارستان ما پذیرفته شدند که 10 نفر آنها کشته و بقیه زخمی بودند. الگوی زخمها حاکی از این بود که مردم به رگبار بسته شده اند زیرا بسیاری از مجروحین دو یا چند گلوله خورده بودند و محل اصابت گلوله ها نیز بسیار نزدیک به هم بود، به عنوان مثال پیر مردی 68 ساله در دو ناحیه کتف چپ و سمت چپ شکم مورد اصابت قرار گرفته بود و یا پسری 18 ساله از ناحیه کف و مچ دست هدف قرار گرفته بود. شرح حال اخذ شده از مجروحین و نیز الگوی زخمها نشان می داد که تیر اندازی از پشت بام انجام شده است، مثلا جوانی 32 ساله از کمر مورد اصابت قرار گرفته بود ولی گلوله از جلو و از قسمت ران خارج شده بود.

    بنا به گفته مجروحین تیر اندازی به طور ناگهانی و زمانی آغاز شد که سیل جمعیت در حال عبور از کنار یک پایگاه بسیج در شمال میدان آزادی (اول بزرگراه محمد علی جناح) بود. به گفته مجروحان یک اتومبیل در مقابل درب آن پایگاه به شکلی پارک شده بود که کسی نتواند با شکستن در وارد آن شود و این امر نشانه برنامه ریزی قبلی برای تیر اندازی می باشد. به گفته شاهدان حدود 4 نفر بسیجی از پشت بام این مرکز به طور ناگهانی اقدام به تیراندازی نمودند به نحوی که حتی کسانی که قصد نجات زخمی ها را داشتند خود نیز مورد اصابت قرار می گرفتند. یکی از مجروحین می گوید در حالی که پشت یک اتومبیل پناه گرفته بودم زخمی شدم.

    در این مرحله مردم خشمگین به اتومبیل پارک شده در مقابل این پایگاه حمله کرده و آنرا به آتش می کشند ولی نمی توانند وارد پایگاه شوند. در ادامه پلیس ضد شورش به همراه گروه های دیگری از بسیجیان برای پراکنده کردن مردم خشمگین از راه می رسند که در این مرحله نیز در قسمت هایی از طول خیابان جناح (به عنوان مثال در نزدیکی مترو) عده دیگری نیز کشته و زخمی می شوند.

    طبق اطلاعاتی که امروز صبح از پزشکان بیمارستان امام خمینی کسب شد، به این بیمارستان نیز در طی دیشب 38 کشته که با گلوله مستقیم کشته شده بودند منتقل شده است.

    لازم به ذکر است که در بامداد امروز پلیس امنیتی تمامی جنازه ها را به زور از بیمارستان تحویل گرفته و آنها را با وانت به محل نا معلومی منتقل کرده است و خانواده بسیاری از آنان حتی از کشته شدن فرزند خود نیز بی خبرند. در بین کشته ها و مجروحین تعدادی کودک 15 و 16 ساله نیز دیده می شوند.

    امروز ساعت 9 تا 11 صبح دانشجویان و پزشکان بیمارستان رسول اکرم در خیابان مجاور این بیمارستان تجمع کرده و به توزیع برگه هایی حاوی اطلاعاتی پیرامون تعداد کشته ها و زخمی ها اقدام نمودند. این تجمع در نهایت با حضور پلیس ضد شورش به پایان رسید.

    با احترام

  140. samiam60 says:

    I don’t believe this is all about winning or losing. This is a forum of debate on issues. We as a people can never agree on every issue but it is important that opposing points of view are heard with out insult or personal attack. I for one tend to get some what heated on certain debates but I will always try as it may to respect those who disagree with me. I hope we can all agree that there is no need to win or lose but rather just enjoy a lively debate and do so without fear of insult. God bless you all, I am off till tonight. See you all then.

  141. VotingFemale says:

    Canada spends about 1 billion Canadian dollars a year on their National Defense.


    Know why??????

  142. tellitlikeitis says:

    Ok warrantonegirl if that’s what you want to believe about it.

  143. tellitlikeitis says:

    Yes because if anyone attacks Canada the US will come to it’s rescue.

  144. VotingFemale says:


    and interesting fact…

    Farsi is not the language of Iran…

    Persian is the language of Iran FKA Persia

    Farsi is the language of Arabs… not Native Persians

  145. Foxwood says:

    I’m a knuckle dragger and I know it. I got the calluses to prove it.

  146. VotingFemale says:

    right tellit…

    The USA is the de facto defender of the free world… and we have the 850 billion dollar a year defense budget to prove it…

  147. VotingFemale says:

    and how it it that the US has that much money to spend on defense?

    Because we are a Free Market Economy with a non Socialist Government… so far…

  148. rosehips says:

    vf, I went to this website and there is a document called: National Defence and Social Welfare Budget Trends in Ten Nations of Postwar Western Europe

    It looks good but the want 13 pounds for it! What no Euros?

    Here is info on Denmark: The latest defense agreement, which covers 2005 to 2009 and which was signed in June 2004, allocated the military an annual budget of $3.87 billion. 40 percent of the budget goes to the Danish Defense Forces’s (DDF) combat operational capability, while 40 percent is for the DDF’s support structures.

  149. VotingFemale says:

    IF Obama and the Socialists get their way… the ability to generate money will dry up like the Sahara Desert… then watch them cute little socialist countries like Canada, Sweden, and Denmark dry up and blow away after being invaded by Russia/China and their buddies No Korea and Iran.

  150. Foxwood says:

    I agree Sam, but to make comments that are cookie cutter huffington post talking points are not debate. Kind of like the jab she took last night. You google the comment she made and it was commine lib cookie cutter crap. No research involved. I got the poop from my local state rep and got the truth, real legwork. Debate is not debate when you spew talking points.

  151. rosehips says:

    thank you for your comment sami.

  152. VotingFemale says:

    The point is Rose… the total financial picture is not being seen…

    if the US suddenly lost the ability to fund the 850 billion dollar defense budget…

    almost all of western europe would have to learn to speak Farsi or Russian or Chinese or Korean

    and I would really like to see how much they have to spend then on socialized health care…

  153. tellitlikeitis says:

    I have been following the events in Iran in the past week with much interest and I have posted any new info from Iran on VF’s blog for all of you to view. I hope you find this information useful.

  154. VotingFemale says:

    I do appreciate it tellit… you are doing a valuable service for us, dear.

  155. rosehips says:

    foxwood, you can’t really pin talking points on me too much. I am not anything close to cookie cutter and everyone else here realizes that, at least I think they do.
    It’s not fun debating when you throw out so much vitriol.

  156. samiam60 says:

    I agree Foxwood the sources for many things can say whatever we want them too. We all can see what is being done so there is no glory in some statements being made. We are on the high road here and you and I both know how frustrating that is. I guess I am saying two wrongs don’t make a right. Have a great day, your comrade in arms. lol

  157. Foxwood says:

    You call it debate? It’s laughable.

  158. rosehips says:

    gawd, vf…I am sooo bad at languages. I just don’t have a head for it. what will I do?

  159. samiam60 says:

    Rose please don’t use big words like vitriol. I don’t know what that means.

  160. Foxwood says:

    What you “researched” last night and the Palin/Limbaugh comments were “Cookie Cutter”.

  161. rosehips says:

    call it whatever you want foxy, I’m done talking about it.

  162. Foxwood says:

    ‘call it whatever you want foxy, I’m done talking about it’


  163. VF, a fellow blogger may be dropping by sometime, Lea (fourredbullsaday) . I invited her after she left a great comment on my site.

  164. rosehips says:

    sami, lol. that’s why I love having google. Instant dictionary!
    one thing about vf’s blog, it sure helps increase the vocabulary, eh?

    sami said: Rose please don’t use big words like vitriol. I don’t know what that means.

  165. samiam60 says:

    I am meat and potatos kinda guy Rose, not gonna go lookin up words and God forbid educate myself.
    Have a great day Cookie, lol

  166. VotingFemale says:

    azgo, thank you for your comment and heads up on this article and video.

    It is appreciated…

    Author : azgo


    Go here! East Texas NBC affiliate.
    Listen to the newscaster and radio personalty talk about Mr. Obama’s eligibility!

    KTBB’s Question of the Day: Is There Enough Proof President Obama is a U.S. citizen?

    There were 13 comments last night.
    edit: presently there are 260 comments…

    Rally the Republic !!!

  167. tellitlikeitis says:

    This has got to be stopped. If this gets passed it will crush our economy.

    House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has put cap-and-trade legislation on a forced march through the House, and the bill may get a full vote as early as Friday. It looks as if the Democrats will have to destroy the discipline of economics to get it done.

    Despite House Energy and Commerce Chairman Henry Waxman’s many payoffs to Members, rural and Blue Dog Democrats remain wary of voting for a bill that will impose crushing costs on their home-district businesses and consumers. The leadership’s solution to this problem is to simply claim the bill defies the laws of economics.

    Their gambit got a boost this week, when the Congressional Budget Office did an analysis of what has come to be known as the Waxman-Markey bill. According to the CBO, the climate legislation would cost the average household only $175 a year by 2020. Edward Markey, Mr. Waxman’s co-author, instantly set to crowing that the cost of upending the entire energy economy would be no more than a postage stamp a day for the average household. Amazing. A closer look at the CBO analysis finds that it contains so many caveats as to render it useless.

    Associated Press

    Henry Waxman
    For starters, the CBO estimate is a one-year snapshot of taxes that will extend to infinity. Under a cap-and-trade system, government sets a cap on the total amount of carbon that can be emitted nationally; companies then buy or sell permits to emit CO2. The cap gets cranked down over time to reduce total carbon emissions.

    To get support for his bill, Mr. Waxman was forced to water down the cap in early years to please rural Democrats, and then severely ratchet it up in later years to please liberal Democrats. The CBO’s analysis looks solely at the year 2020, before most of the tough restrictions kick in. As the cap is tightened and companies are stripped of initial opportunities to “offset” their emissions, the price of permits will skyrocket beyond the CBO estimate of $28 per ton of carbon. The corporate costs of buying these expensive permits will be passed to consumers.

    The biggest doozy in the CBO analysis was its extraordinary decision to look only at the day-to-day costs of operating a trading program, rather than the wider consequences energy restriction would have on the economy. The CBO acknowledges this in a footnote: “The resource cost does not indicate the potential decrease in gross domestic product (GDP) that could result from the cap.”

    The hit to GDP is the real threat in this bill. The whole point of cap and trade is to hike the price of electricity and gas so that Americans will use less. These higher prices will show up not just in electricity bills or at the gas station but in every manufactured good, from food to cars. Consumers will cut back on spending, which in turn will cut back on production, which results in fewer jobs created or higher unemployment. Some companies will instead move their operations overseas, with the same result.

    When the Heritage Foundation did its analysis of Waxman-Markey, it broadly compared the economy with and without the carbon tax. Under this more comprehensive scenario, it found Waxman-Markey would cost the economy $161 billion in 2020, which is $1,870 for a family of four. As the bill’s restrictions kick in, that number rises to $6,800 for a family of four by 2035.

    Note also that the CBO analysis is an average for the country as a whole. It doesn’t take into account the fact that certain regions and populations will be more severely hit than others — manufacturing states more than service states; coal producing states more than states that rely on hydro or natural gas. Low-income Americans, who devote more of their disposable income to energy, have more to lose than high-income families.

    Even as Democrats have promised that this cap-and-trade legislation won’t pinch wallets, behind the scenes they’ve acknowledged the energy price tsunami that is coming. During the brief few days in which the bill was debated in the House Energy Committee, Republicans offered three amendments: one to suspend the program if gas hit $5 a gallon; one to suspend the program if electricity prices rose 10% over 2009; and one to suspend the program if unemployment rates hit 15%. Democrats defeated all of them.

    The reality is that cost estimates for climate legislation are as unreliable as the models predicting climate change. What comes out of the computer is a function of what politicians type in. A better indicator might be what other countries are already experiencing. Britain’s Taxpayer Alliance estimates the average family there is paying nearly $1,300 a year in green taxes for carbon-cutting programs in effect only a few years.

    Americans should know that those Members who vote for this climate bill are voting for what is likely to be the biggest tax in American history. Even Democrats can’t repeal that reality

  168. VotingFemale says:


    if they pass that bill it will reset the DEM congressmen who vote for it…

    and as soon as the congress is back to a rebublican/independent majority it will get voted out.

    I expect pain to come… and it will ultimately be painful to the DEM congress…

    America does not change into a socialist country because Obama and the Socialists decides it will… but they can cause some temporary pain… and perhaps that is what is needed in this country to wake people the hell up.

  169. Foxwood says:

    It’s up to us to call our Reps on this. Call, email, walk in the office. This happens tomorrow. And the Senate votes on Card Check tomorrow also.

  170. karmahd says:

    Karma FLASH… Health care in America can be fixed, Tort reform was not mentioned last night as a cause and a source to reduce global costs of health care, why, our government is primarily ATTORNEYS, and a shark will never kill all of its food source. Karma, FLASH….out, back to work.

    See Rose I have the flashes tooo!!!

  171. Foxwood says:

    Farrah is dead. RIP.

  172. VotingFemale says:

    card check…

    what an F’ing joke that is…

    just wait till that hits the collective attention of people in the work force…

    most people are not aware of what is going on… and the socialists are banking on that.

  173. karmahd says:

    Sorry to hear about both issues, CAP in trade will kill any economic recovery, and Farrahs death, but she really was in pain!

  174. Foxwood says:

    Farrah Fawcett dead at 62.

  175. rosehips says:

    lol karma, flash away!

    vf, that was an interesting link about the monetary reward for proof of Obama’s Kenyan birth.
    I would like to approach this issue like you suggested and try to prove Obama was born in Kenya. I would like to go to Kenya and find witnesses to his birth. I am looking for financial backing for this expedition. It will be expensive. I would like to have an entourage including a translator. I think we can use our “citizen journalist” credentials to get to the bottom of this once and for all.
    Anyone want to join me? Of course if anyone wants to bankroll the “investigative expedition” you will receive the reward money if we are successful.

  176. VotingFemale says:

    Sad to hear about her passing… 62 is too young…

    Farrah Fawcett Succumbs to Cancer at 62
    Iconic ‘Charlie’s Angels’ Actress Loses Cancer Battle, Dies in Santa Monica Hospital

    Farrah Fawcett, the 1970s “It Girl” who was known for her cascading golden hair and bombshell body, died in a Santa Monica hospital today, ABC News has learned. She was 62-years-old.

    “After a long and brave battle with cancer, our beloved Farrah has passed away,” Fawcett’s longtime romantic partner Ryan O’Neal said in a statement released by Fawcett’s publicist, Paul Bloch. “Although this is an extremely difficult time for her family and friends, we take comfort in the beautiful times that we shared with Farrah over the years and the knowledge that her life brought joy to so many people around the world.”

    Fawcett became a symbol of the will to survive through her years-long battle with cancer, which was chronicled in the recent TV documentary “Farrah’s Story.” Her death comes on the heels of O’Neal’s declaration that she agreed to marry him.

    “I’ve asked her to marry me, again, and she’s agreed,” O’Neal, 68, told Barbara Walters in an exclusive interview for ABC’s “20/20” scheduled to air Thursday. Walters sat down with O’Neal and others close to Fawcett in the final days of the actress’ life.

    Fawcett and O’Neal began dating in 1980 and lived together with son Redmond. The two never officially tied the knot, but not for O’Neal’s lack of trying.

    “I used to ask her to marry me all the time,” he said. “But … it just got to be a joke, you know. We just joked about it.”

  177. rosehips says:

    sorry to hear about Farrah. I hear she was going to marry Ryan O’Neal. I guess that didn’t happen.
    I wasn’t much into tv during the angel days and thank God I never got into that hair style, but Farrah was cool. may she be in peace now.

  178. tellitlikeitis says:

  179. tellitlikeitis says:

  180. rosehips says:

    nice tribute tellit,

    she sure was America’s sweetheart. oh but if we could just go back to those days again, eh?

  181. Foxwood says:

    “oh but if we could just go back to those days again, eh?”

    When the Constitution was taken more seriously? I thought socialism was the answer.

  182. tellitlikeitis says:

    Farrah is the only one I have every heard of that had anal cancer. It has got to be a pretty rare cancer.

  183. VotingFemale says:

    it spread to her liver… and that is what killed her.

  184. VotingFemale says:

    Condylomas: Condylomas (also called warts) are growths that occur just outside the anus and in the lower anal canal below the dentate line. Occasionally condylomas can be found just above the dentate line. They are caused by infection with a human papilloma virus (HPV). People who have had condylomas are more likely to develop anal cancer (see next section, “Potentially Pre-cancerous Anal Conditions.”).

  185. SamHenry2 says:

    Tellit – Anal cancer is somewhat rare but the aggressive form of it that she had was extremely rare.

    When you have a rare form of anything, that reduces the possibility that there will be a goo enough drug to hit it and stamp it out. Pharmaceutical companies often file applications t make “orphan drugs” – a term referring to the process of making a drug to cure an illness from which (forget the number) of peoplle suffer. The value to the company is a longer periof of exclusivity and of course ability to price it right under the circumstances.

  186. VotingFemale says:

    The American Cancer Society estimates that in 2008 about 5,070 new cases of anal cancer will have been diagnosed in the United States (about 3,000 in women and 2,000 in men).[1] It is typically found in adults, average age early 60s.[1]

    In the US, an estimated 680 people will have died of anal cancer in 2008.[1]

    Risk factors

    * Human papillomavirus (HPV) infection: An examination of squamous cell carcinoma tumor tissues from patients in Denmark and Sweden showed a high proportion of anal cancers to be positive for the types of HPV that are also associated with high risk of cervical cancer (90% of the tumors from women, 100% of the tumors from homosexual men, and 58% of tumors from heterosexual men).[2] In another study done, high-risk types of HPV, notably HPV-16, were detected in 84 percent of anal cancer specimens examined.[3]
    * Sexual activity: Having multiple sex partners or having anal sex, due to the increased risk of exposure to the HPV virus.[4] Homosexual and bisexual men are 17 times more likely to develop anal cancer than heterosexual men.[5]
    * Smoking: Current smokers are several times more likely to develop anal cancer compared with nonsmokers.[4]
    * Immunosuppression, which is often associated with HIV infection.[4]
    * Benign anal lesions (inflammatory bowel disease (IBD),[6] hemorrhoids, fistulae or cicatrices). Inflammation resulting from benign anal lesions, such as hemorrhoids and anal fistulas, has been considered to cause a predisposition to anal cancer. [7][8]

    Anal Pap smears similar to those used in cervical cancer screening have been studied for early detection of anal cancer in high-risk individuals.[11][12]

  187. VotingFemale says:

    Her chances of contracting anal cancer was very low… but high risk behaviors such as anal sex increases the odds for people.

    680 deaths from anal cancer in 2008 is very low compared to other causes of death.

  188. tellitlikeitis says:

    Thanks for the information VF. I know that you can get cancer just about anywhere but anal cancer just doesn’t make the news like the other cancers.

  189. VotingFemale says:

    yeah… tellit. it hasn’t gotten much press… but you can bet it will now.

  190. SamHenry2 says:

    VF my comment is awaiting moderation.

  191. SamHenry says:

    VF I put in a user name I do not use here, SamHenry2 and so the blog did not recognize me. Sorry for the disruption.

  192. SamHenry says:

    Sorry I have to go clean the garage.

    Dog again overboard

  193. Foxwood says:

    The Guess Who – Shakin’ All Over -1965

  194. rosehips says:

    VF, just fyi, I heard back from Debi and I gave her the link to this blog. I told her I wanted more background info on their group. Maybe she will come on the blog and explain more about who they are.
    She asked me which group I was referring to as they have more than one. I expect to hear back from her, at least I hope I do.

  195. rosehips says:

    strange thing….as I was studying “contract law” in my new text book, they gave an example of a contract that Robert Wagner had with the producers of “Charlies Angels” How wierd it was to be reading that immediately after finding out that Farrah Fawcett passed away. I did not realize she had anal cancer.
    There are so many risks out there. Anal sex is risky. vaginal sex is risky. maturbation makes you blind. What is left to do????

    sorry, don’t mean to make light of a horrible disease. It is sad when icons die. Farrah represented what everyone wanted…beauty, personality, compassion, sensuousness, goodness. Without dreams and lust for ideals and fantasies, we will not thrive. I don’t think that socialism really kills the fantasy. Everyone has fantasies, don’t we?

  196. Foxwood says:

    Better dead than red.

  197. tellitlikeitis says:

    I was to pass on a little news about the housing market. This is happening all over the country.

    How Bad Is The Housing Market? One Man’s Tale
    Published: Thursday, 25 Jun 2009 | 9:32 AM ET Text Size By: Diana Olick
    CNBC Real Estate Reporter

    I received the following email from Jeff in San Diego and was so struck by how reasonable, matter-of-fact and truly troubling it is. I know it’s California, but I believe it’s an example of a spreading trend nationwide:

    “Last year I was paying triple payments to pay down my mortgages. I stopped overpaying at year end because my business was slowing. I think it was in April that I started really wondering what my house was worth, then there were 3 short sales that went through in my neighborhood and I was shocked at the price they sold at. I was 30% underwater after paying down my mortgages $100k in the previous year. My house value fell from (last appraisal) $1.250 to $650k! At this point (about 2 months ago), I started looking closely at loan modifications and I quickly got the impression that principal reduction was not realistic. Suddenly it occurred to me that the 3 short sales in my neighborhood had accomplished principal reduction, when loan modification would not. I told my wife to find us a rental for $6,000/month or less (the amount I was paying to stay in this house), and within about 2 weeks we were happily renting for $4,400 in the nicest neighborhood we have ever lived in. I was advised to stop paying my mortgages and we listed our short sale at $650k since the comps were clear and rec’d multiple offers immediately. I expect the banks will accept the offers, but the are very slow, so who knows. My perfect credit has been ruined for now, but I have no debt anymore, so I think it is a fair trade. In my view, unless principal reduction is available, prices will continue to drop and people will continue to walk away from their houses.”

  198. tellitlikeitis says:

    U.S. Economy: Jobless Claims Rise in Sign Labor Market Stagnant
    Share | Email | Print | A A A

    By Courtney Schlisserman and Shobhana Chandra

    June 25 (Bloomberg) — The number of Americans filing claims for unemployment benefits unexpectedly rose last week, a reminder that companies will keep cutting staff even as the economy stabilizes.

    Initial jobless claims rose by 15,000 to 627,000 in the week ended June 20, from a revised 612,000 the week before, the Labor Department said today in Washington. A report from the Commerce Department showed gross domestic product shrank at a 5.5 percent annual pace in the first three months of the year.

    Recent data show some areas of the economy, such as housing and manufacturing, are seeing a smaller pace of decline, consistent with the Federal Reserve’s projection that the slump is “slowing.” Even so, companies are unlikely to hire until there are sustained gains in demand, meaning a recovery remains dependent on the effectiveness of government stimulus efforts.

    “We’re in the prelude to the end of the recession,” said Stuart Hoffman, chief economist at PNC Financial Services Group Inc. in Pittsburgh, who accurately forecast the drop in GDP. “The stimulus will build steam, but it’ll be a pretty tepid recovery.” The loss of jobs “is one factor holding back consumer spending,” he said.

  199. tellitlikeitis says:

    What a surprise.

    New York Times Poll Showing 72% Support for Obama’s Health Care Plan Was Stacked With Obama Supporters
    Wednesday, June 24, 2009
    By Christopher Neefus

    President Barack Obama addressed the American Medical Association during their annual meeting in Chicago, Monday, June 15, 2009. (AP Photo/Charles Rex Arbogast)(CNSNews.com) – A New York Times/CBS News poll released Saturday that showed broad bipartisan support for President Obama’s health care reform, over-sampled Obama voters compared to McCain voters, critics say.

    The poll, administered June 12-16, found that 72 percent of respondents favored the creation of a government health-insurance plan that would compete with private insurers.

    It also said 50 percent of respondents thought the government would do a better job providing medical coverage than private insurers, up from 30 percent in 2007; and that 59 percent thought the government would be better at holding down costs, up from 47 percent two years ago.

    But critics including pollster Kellyanne Conway say the results are inaccurate because they are heavily skewed toward those who voted for Obama in the 2008 presidential election.

    In addition, other indicators point toward a repeat of the defeat Hillary Clinton’s proposed government-run faced in the early ‘90’s.

    Out of 895 respondents, 24 percent were Republicans, 38 percent Democrats, and 38 percent were independents, according to a June 20 release from CBS News. While the release says the sampling was conducted at random, those numbers are significantly below the 32.6 percent who identify themselves as Republican according to a May survey from the nonpartisan Rasmussen Reports.

    Similarly, the Times/CBS poll said 48 percent of respondents had voted for Obama, versus 25 percent for McCain, a nearly two-to-one advantage for Obama supporters.

    Had those results been reflected in the November presidential election, Obama would have garnered 66 percent of the vote to McCain’s 34 percent, Conway, president & CEO of “the polling company,” told CNSNews.com.

    “Was the vote 66-34? You tell me,” Conway said.

    In 2008, Obama won 53 percent of the vote, McCain won 46 percent.

    Conway said that the poll was skewed toward Democrats and Obama supporters because the Times and CBS made it so.

    “Their original result was more in line (with other non-partisan polling for party identification) but they weighted those numbers,” Conway charged.

    The random information gathered by the two media outlets originally saw fewer independents and Democrats, but their polling methodology saw those numbers shift at the expense of Republican representation. Conway called this a case of “a conclusion in search of evidence.”

    Janet Elder, editor for news surveys and election analysis at The New York Times, defended the poll’s methodology.

    “Although some polling organizations do, The New York Times/CBS News poll does not weight by party ID,” she told CNSNews.com. “We weight by characteristics that are known from census data.”

    Scott Rasmussen, founder and CEO of Rasmussen Reports, a nonpartisan pollster, defended the veracity of the Times/CBS News poll — but found it difficult.

    “We have absolutely no idea what their weighting process is and what their technique is,” he told CNSNews.com. “I believe that they did not make adjustments based on party (identification). I believe they go on other factors and simply report what comes out of that.”

  200. VotingFemale says:

    SamH, I just saw and approved your other username… samhenry2.

    no problemo dear

  201. VotingFemale says:

    Comment from a non blogger to the blog:

    Dave said on 2009/06/25 at 1:42am

    Standard argument: what good is the latest high tech medical treatment if only the rich can afford it?

    Answer1: In a socialist system, there is no motivation to create new, innovative treatments because there is no financial benefit. If you get paid the same anyway, why bother?

    Answer2: New, expensive treatments do not stay that way in a capitalist system. The price is driven down over time due to competition. The more people you can offer the treatment to, the more money you make. Examples? Lasik vision correction and MRI’s (and countless others). Under socialism, these treatments would never see the light of day because they would be considered “too expensive” by the government and would never be improved and refined.

    I would encourage the pro-socialists in this forum to please open you minds to the common sense of all this. Socialist health care systems are failing everywhere they are tried and the citizens are not better served. Please do not just blindly walk into this one. You do not want to hand over your life (health) to the same politicians that raided the social security trust funds in order to pay for pet projects. They do not care that the taxpayer is hurt, they only care about themselves. We should be talking about how to dismantle all these failed systems and close them forever, not create new ones.

  202. ohiobelle says:

    Hello everybody!

    Just when I get my blood pressure under control Obama & Company try to pass Cap & Trade! UGH! Which is worse, his health care plan or Cap & Trade? It’s like asking who is better, Mir Hossein Mousavi or Ahmadinejad? BOTH ARE BAD!!

    Anybody check out Banking Queen Barney Fudd on O’Reilly last night?

  203. ohiobelle says:

    Here is Barney Fudds song.. Banking Queen.. lol

    You can build
    You can buy
    Any house your heart desires
    Zero down
    I am the banking queen

    Friday night and your cash is low
    I know a place that you can go
    Get your house and use it
    Go ahead abuse it
    You can do anything

    Go out and have a fling
    I am the banking queen
    Old and sweet
    Go ahead and do our thing
    Banking queen
    Don’t complain
    Or you’ll hear me scream, oh yeah

    You can build
    You can buy
    Any house your heart desires
    Zero down
    I am the banking queen

    Told the bankers: Hey, you guys
    Make the loans or you’ll be fined
    My friends at Fannie sure need it
    Do it my way or beat it
    While the stock’s crashing

    That doesn’t mean a thing
    I’m still the banking queen
    Never spanked for a single thing
    Banking queen
    Don’t complain
    Or you’ll hear me scream, oh yeah

    You can build
    You can buy
    Any house your heart desires
    Zero down
    I am the banking queen

  204. VotingFemale says:

    Hiya belle!

    Good news…

    Looks like the Obamacare Infomercial on ABC Obombed

    June 25, 2009
    ABC’s White House special struggled for viewers

    Obama special President Obama’s town hall meeting on health care delivered a sickly rating Wednesday evening.

    The one-hour ABC News special “Primetime: Questions for the President: Prescription for America” (4.7 million viewers, 1.1 preliminary adults 18-49 rating) had the fewest viewers in the 10 p.m. hour (against NBC’s “The Philanthropist” debut and a repeat of “CSI: NY” on CBS). The special tied some 8 p.m. comedy repeats as the lowest-rated program on a major broadcast network.

    The special was shot at the White House and featured the president answering questions about his health care plan. The president’s primary message was that those who like their current insurance will be able to keep it and that taking no action will result in higher health care costs.

    The special drew fire from Republican leadership after refusing to allow an official opposition response, or even a paid ad. ABC also interviewed Obama on “Good Morning America” to help promote the special.

    UPDATE: ABC points out that “Questions for the President” continued into late night during “Nightline” (4.3 million) and helped boost the news program to pull more viewers than CBS’ “Late Show” and NBC’s “Tonight Show.”

  205. ohiobelle says:

    Hello vf!!

    vf wrote: Looks like the Obamacare Infomercial on ABC Obombed

    Just like his polls!

  206. VotingFemale says:

    Check out Michelle Malkin’s blogpost


    note: she linked this blogpost on the of hers one above…

  207. tellitlikeitis says:

    ohiobelle, If cap and trade passes and gets signed into law everthing that is energy related will go up substantually which will include all goods that you buy because everything takes some type of energy to produce, harvest, or ship somewhere. Electricity rates will double, gas and diesel will be 5 to 6 dollars a gallon or more plus natural gas and heating oil prices will skyrocket. In my opinion this will be the knock out punch on this already struggling economy.

  208. ohiobelle says:

    His infomercial was just a diversion. It’s the way the Obama administration works — forget about how you get it done, just get it done!! Cap & Trade wasn’t getting the support it needed so they created a diversion to slip it in the back door. Glenn Beck nailed that one!

  209. ohiobelle says:

    Hello Tellit! I agree with you 100%!

    Pelosi has been working over time to get the votes needed for it to pass. I am very worried that it will pass. All these questionable bills get passed on a late Friday hush rush session. It’s such CRAP!!

  210. tellitlikeitis says:

    When the analog switch was turned off this month it rendered about 2.5 million tv sets useless. ABC,NBC,and CBS lost 2.5 million with the flick of a switch.

  211. ohiobelle says:

    Obama thinks he can flash that big smile of his and pass one of the biggest tax increases in history… When are people going to stand up and SAY NO MORE!

  212. ohiobelle says:

    Tellit wrote: When the analog switch was turned off this month it rendered about 2.5 million tv sets useless. ABC,NBC,and CBS lost 2.5 million with the flick of a switch.

    That is how fast Obama is losing his supporters.

  213. tellitlikeitis says:

    If that bill passes and obama signs it I believe it will be a career ender for all that supported it especially after the American people see the devasting results to their already stressed household budgets. They must really want to kill this economy in washington.

  214. ohiobelle says:

    Tellit.. your avatar is freaking me out! lol

  215. tellitlikeitis says:

    This economy is already on the ropes and cap and trade will knock it right out of the ring.

  216. tellitlikeitis says:

    If my avatar is too offensive I will change it.

  217. rosehips says:

    re: lazik surgery. You can get lazik surgery in Canada and there are tax breaks to help defer the costs. I don’t think that many insurance policies cover lazik surgery as it is elective. It’s like cosmetic surgery. Although reconstructive surgery is different, things like face lifts and breast augmentation would not be covered by insurance either but is available in countries with socialized medicine. I don’t know how socializing medicine will change the cost or availability of elective surgeries.

    david said: Answer2: New, expensive treatments do not stay that way in a capitalist system. The price is driven down over time due to competition. The more people you can offer the treatment to, the more money you make. Examples? Lasik vision correction and MRI’s (and countless others). Under socialism, these treatments would never see the light of day because they would be considered “too expensive” by the government and would never be improved and refined.

  218. rosehips says:

    and hey belle, how you doing?

  219. ohiobelle says:

    And what is our CEO of the United States doing tonight??? Can you say Luau… Oh yes, grab your tiki torches and get ready to Limbo & Pinata!! I am so glad our CEO is happy.

  220. ohiobelle says:

    Hello Rosehips! I am doing great. How are you?

  221. ohiobelle says:

    tellit wrote: If my avatar is too offensive I will change it.

    NO!! It’s funny as hell.

  222. rosehips says:

    my view on Cap and Trade: screw it.

    Let’s just live while we can and do what we will. Forget that our kids and grandkids inherit the earth we desecrate.

    Forget what 99% of scientists say. Let’s cling to the 1% that tell us how full of “Crap” they all are. If we are wrong, will our grandkids forgive us? We’ll have to wait and see because I don’t think Americans are willing to let go of a life style that will probably kill us or our kids or their kids.
    My “Tirade” is over.

    Crap and Tirade. What’s the use?

  223. ohiobelle says:

    Never go to the White House without the following:

    Luau Party Pack

    Kit includes:
    1dz Tropical Bandanas
    1dz deluxe Silk Leis
    1dz Puca Shell Beads
    6 Hula Skirts & 6 Coconut Bras
    1dz Luau Sunglasses
    Items may be substituted for equal or higher value.
    ukulele not included

    I personally like the yellow fruit hats. lol

  224. ohiobelle says:

    Rosehips wrote: Let’s just live while we can and do what we will. Forget that our kids and grandkids inherit the earth we desecrate.

    HAHAHA! Where have you been all my life! lol

  225. rosehips says:

    belle, I’m much better seeing your little tizz over the luau, lol. I hadn’t heard about it.
    I try to insulate myself from the news.
    I did hear the sad news about Farrah Fawcett. That topic is shredding up ireports right about now.
    I was getting a kick out of zydistort’s take on the recent deaths of so called “icons” Carradine, McMahon and now Fawcett. I sure get a kick out of zydistort (zygote).

  226. ohiobelle says:

    Cap & Trade should be called the Porkopolis Bill. Porky is more like a wish list for the Liberal wealth redistribution plan!

  227. ohiobelle says:

    I hope Farrah Fawcett rest in peace. She fought a tough battle and brought alot of attention to her cancer. I admire her courage and pray her family. That is my nice side.

    Anybody notice Al Gore pulled a Joe Biden?? He’s in hiding today.

  228. ohiobelle says:

    Rosehips, I am sorry but I have to run for a little while. I will return with my neon beachcomber hat… It’s luau time!!!!

  229. rosehips says:

    I was never too good at the limbo. luaus are not my favorite party theme. I don’t really like mixing fruit and meat too much although I make a pretty awesome apricot bbq sauce.

    I once got drunk at a going away party and drank too many mai tais (they are hawaiian, right?)
    I almost missed my flight. geesh….

  230. ohiobelle says:

    Rosehips, yes, luaus are Hawaiian… Maybe his family will fly in.. lol

  231. arlenearmy says:

    I agree w/your response to Dave. Its odd that Dave mentioned MRI & Lasik in the same sentence. There ‘s an obvious difference between the 2.

    When I got my lasik, there was a long line of folks (private pay … cash in hand) waiting for that surgery. And insurance didn’t pay for it. Insurance told me they will pay for eye glasses & contact lenses.

  232. rosehips says:

    belle, it was fun chatting with you. I am going outside while the sun is shining and the clouds are moving out. I am taking my schoolbook out to the yard. I may do some yardwork out there too.
    I hope to catch you later!

  233. ohiobelle says:

    I will be back soon.

    It’s great to talk to you again.

  234. rosehips says:

    thanks arlene. I don’t think that elective surgeries will be affected by socialized insurance. Thanks for acknowledging your agreement. 🙂

    I need to get. bbl. hope you all have a great afternoon and evening!

  235. VotingFemale says:

    Later in the morning at her weekly press conference, Pelosi said the number of Democrats undecided on the Waxman-Markey energy and climate change bill had decreased, so Gore’s trip from Tennessee was unnecessary.

    Minority Leader John Boehner’s office later distributed a press release calling Gore “too toxic” for battleground state Democrats to appear with. The release included a blue/red state map of the 2000 electoral college results. As might be remembered, the entire middle of the country (aside from four upper Midwestern states) was red.

  236. arlenearmy says:

    202-225-3121 OR 202- 224-3121
    Tell them you oppose the Waxman-Markey Clean Energy Bill.

    I got it on speed dial, so good luck in getting thru. The circuits are busy, maybe because they are out on our WH lawn for Obama’s pork Luau.

  237. SamHenry says:

    Speaking of medical insurance, I may have lost my backup Blue Cross/Blue Shield backup insurance from my former employer. I’ve had a rough two months and the bill and coupons for the year drifted down to the bottom of a pile of papers and today I just had the thought I had better get into that pile. They think I will be reinstated but I won’t know for sure until next week. I have such good prescription coverage under it. My former employer was a Pharmaceutical company and any pills of theirs I took I got FREE. So pray for me and I hope I am not a nervous twit and am flashing all over the place. Actually I handle great problems better than the little ones. Here’s the thing: when you get to my age, turn your books over to your attorney. Let him/her take care of the details. It is worth the cost for peace of mind.

  238. SamHenry says:

    In other medical news, Michael Jackson has just been taken to Hospital with cardiac arrest. His family have been notified.

    With all of that cosmetic surgery, something has to give somewhere. I’ll bet he will try to have a heart lift.

  239. arlenearmy says:

    I’m praying for you. The advice you gave of turning over the books to a lawyer, should be taken by the young folks also. The things you speak of are on my mind daily. But I am concerned that life insurance companies may go bust. I’m trying hard to not think about it, but I don’t want to duck & dodge the inevitable.

  240. SamHenry says:

    Thank you Arlene, I very much appreciate it.

    Hi to VF and Rose and whoever else is around.

    It’s a comfort to check in with my blog buddies before dinner. When in trouble, head in refrigerator.

  241. rosehips says:

    hand over books to a lawyer?
    don’t know how I would afford that. What, you want your lawyer to pay your bills for you sh? I think you need to tie a little string around your finger, girl. I know you don’t have money to pay a lawyer to pay your bills.

    you must have been trying to be funny, eh?

  242. SamHenry says:

    Rose – My attorney is a friend and gives me a discount but you are right, I have to think of some adaptive strategies.

    Speaking of cost of living, my Waste Management garbage people are now charging $3.00 per extra bag. Last year it was $1.00. Highway robbery. Now Obama should look into greedy garbage companies.

  243. arlenearmy says:

    We got something in the mail yesterday. It was a long questionnaire asking about medical & personal stuff & it looks like it came from the government. They even ask personal stuff such as height, what you eat & how often you eat … even your race. And its bar coded. We contacted our senator about this & they are checking it out.

  244. SamHenry says:

    Arlene – that sounds very strange. Did it say some kind of company or was it representing itself as part of the US government.

  245. rosehips says:

    sh, I believe if free garbage enterprise. I have no sympathy for those who must pay extra for creating extra garbage. I’m very sorry to tell you this. I think there should be a excise tax on extra garbage. I would not wince if the gov’t taxed us $30 for each extra bag. I have a very hard time filling my small garbage can each month. You should really try hoarding. It cuts down on waste. hahahaha

  246. arlenearmy says:

    SH it says:

    US Department of Health & Human Services. and it’s located in Chicago, IL

    Senator Coburn office said that they are unaware of this. We made copy & faxed it to them.

  247. tellitlikeitis says:

    Entertainer Michael Jackson was taken to a hospital on Thursday, according to a Los Angeles Fire Department official.

    A Los Angeles fire official told CNN that paramedics arrived at Michael Jackson’s home after a 911 call.

    Fire Capt. Steve Ruda told CNN a 911 call came in from a west Los Angeles residence at 12:21 p.m. and the patient was treated and transferred to the UCLA Medical Center.

    Asked specifics of the patient’s condition, the spokesman said he could not discuss them because of federal privacy laws.

  248. rosehips says:

    arlene, I got a call recently from abc news. They wanted to know about my political views and how I voted and my views on certain issues and did I watch Dancing with the Stars. That last q really threw me off. What was up with that?

  249. rosehips says:

    I think michael is either upset about Farrah Fawcett dying, is jealous of the attention Farrah is getting, or has finally succumbed to the meds he takes to get his mind off little boys. oh poor MJ

  250. rosehips says:

    is there a glitch in the system? I am getting kicked off after submitting comments. Oh well, I should get back to my books. Just finishing up a mid afternoon meal.

  251. tellitlikeitis says:

    Symbols of communism and marijuana and a prediction that “capitalism will fail” aren’t exactly the sort of end-of-year messages you’d expect from an eighth grader.

    But that’s precisely what some students at the Black Pine Circle School, a private school in Berkeley, Calif., chose to include in their “Class of 2007” mosaic.

    The symbols, which are prominently displayed outside the school, have prompted questions about the appropriateness of images like a hammer and sickle and a marijuana leaf on school grounds — and have led critics to say they are blatant proof of political indoctrination of young children.

    Black Pine Circle bills itself as a day school where students from kindergarten through eighth grade will be “maximally free of all the ‘isms’ which pervade most aspects of the world around them: from racism to sexism to the less obvious forms of discrimination,” according to its Web site

  252. karmahd says:

    Samnhenry, get a gmail account and with that you get a free calender program, open you bills every day and set an SMS/text alert to your cell phone to notify you when they are due, its free and if you input the info you will pay your bills.

  253. arlenearmy says:

    Dunno about that last question. ABC is the news. US government is another story. When the government wants to know what kind of phone service we got, I think that’s meddling.

  254. karmahd says:

    the system is working, it is just the feds watching us and copying every comment for the lawsuit against us, that’s all

  255. oh thanks, great, karma…you know how paranoid I am.

  256. arlenearmy says:

    I grew up on Michael Jackson and Fawcett. This is devastating news. Im praying that Jackson survives.

    They say it comes in 3’s.

  257. rosehips says:

    arlene, don’t worry. There have already been 3 if you count Carradine, Ed McMahon and Farrah. I think Michael will be alright.

    Sorry if what I said was offensive. I used to like him too until he turned white. lol

  258. arlenearmy says:

    I don’t mean to be superstitious about that it comes in 3’s. But…
    1. Ed McMahon
    2. Farrah Fawcett … and
    3. (fill in the blank)

    So let’s pray that Michael makes it.

  259. arlenearmy says:

    If you want to include Carradine, then maybe Michael will start the 2nd set of 3’s…. that makes 2 more to go.

  260. karmahd says:

    I want to know how someone that skinny and used to be rich can have a heart attack??? Might be due to infections of the heart valves due to all the surgery!

  261. I think of that song he sang so young, ABC, easy as 123, baby you and me. Plus I loved all the ones from Thriller, etc.

  262. karmahd says:

    Wow they are saying it is pretty serious for Jackson! This is too damn odd all these people at the same time???

  263. SamHenry says:

    Rose I’m having the same difficulty with commenting here. I get a little paranoid when I flash and so I am certain the the FBI, the CIA and Warrantonegirl are watching. We’re in trouble either way.

    Arlene – I had the same things happen in 3s thing.

    Karm – I have a gmail account. TX I will set it up.

    God – please let this comment go though. Do you have a twitter account. I’d love to send you a tweet because the prayer thing is intermittent.

    Arlene – Liz Taylor’s rep says Michael is fine. Wouldn’t you know Liz would have her own information clearing house. I wonder if she and Michael will be buried together.

    When it comes to the stars, that’s when we suspend belief and think they will live forever.

    Now they are talking about Michael’s children. I haven’t seen any heavily veiled children entering the hospital but someone looking like Debby Rowe entered the hospital.

  264. right karma it could be that heart disease where if you have dental work done, etc. germs gather on your valves and it kills you. Only God knows.

    It is shame tho.

  265. rosehips says:

    rich skinny people having heart attacks karma? It’s called cocaine…

  266. arlenearmy says:

    the way the news is reporting this, Michael may not make it alive. I got a bad feeling about this. They are reporting this story like vultures hoovering over the body.

  267. SH said: the FBI, the CIA and Warrantonegirl are watching. We’re in trouble either way.

    SH,hahahahaahah glad I don’t wear my feelings on my sleeve or I might be crying! hahahaahahahah instead I’m laughing until I’m crying! ahahahah

  268. m2 says:

    Michael Jackson is dead! at 50!!!

  269. karmahd says:

    Micheal Jackson has died!

  270. SamHenry says:

    Michael Jackson is now in a coma.

    Rose – I do believe he had abused drugs over time. They feel brain function is low.

  271. arlenearmy says:

    Well Michael did go overboard on that bleaching cream. Before he did all that, he was healthy body. Then he went fruity.

    Oh no… they now say MICHAEL IS IN A COMA !!!

  272. arlenearmy says:

    Dead .. who reported that ? What news media. Im watching Fox and they say he’s in coma.

  273. m2 says:

    oh sorry… facebook friends did…

  274. karmahd says:

    ON the local news the said he had died?? But both Fox and CNN nothing yet

  275. People, what in the world?

  276. SamHenry says:

    Huffington Post reports he was dead when the paramedics arrived at the house.

  277. m2 says:

    Arlene, I did a google search and AP reported he died. I just refreshed my search and that headline is gone.

  278. karmahd says:

    I watched them say it on the local news which is an NBC affiliate

  279. m2 says:

    WG! I don’t know!!!

  280. rosehips says:

    holy crap.
    mj is dead?

  281. SamHenry says:

    LA Times according to CNN reports Jackson has died. Very sad for those kids of his. They are so young.

  282. Oh gosh, Rush said something unkind, doggoneit. Nevertheless Michael was an American Icon and people had a love hate feeling for him…I guess… So sad, I hope he had/has a personal relationship with the Lord, …to be absent from the body is to be presen with the Lord…

  283. arlenearmy says:

    AP just reported Michael is dead.

  284. rosehips says:

    cnn just said he’s dead.

  285. m2 says:

    it’s sad…
    “don’t stop till you get enough” will be in my heart!

    We’re eating dinner, bbl!!

  286. ohiobelle says:

    Fox just reported Michael Jackson died! OMG!!

  287. m2 says:

    this is shocking to me! Farrah had cancer, but Michael was 50. I guess he was doing drugs?

  288. arlenearmy says:

    Unusual part of this is that both Farrah & Michael died on the same day.

  289. SamHenry says:

    I uploaded a Jackson 5 vid onto the blog yesterday. I thought what a cute kid he was – and he was a cute teenager. I’s a shame he had some kind of self image problem that he just plain became a cosmetic surgery nightmare. Still, he had something that kept his fans happy.

  290. karmahd says:

    Updated at 3:15 p.m.: Pop star Michael Jackson was pronounced dead by doctors this afternoon after arriving at a hospital in a deep coma, city and law enforcement sources told The Times

  291. arlenearmy says:

    Greta says he died in debt. Lost neverland !

  292. lisaintx says:

    Ark of the Covenant to be revealed on Friday. Wow!!! Hmmmm….interesting, and I look forward to seeing that for sure.


  293. SamHenry says:

    He was a genius but like a lot of geniuses, he was a bit on the odd side. And the charges of child abuse – tragic.

    Now if he had stopped the surgery when this vid was made, he would have been fine. He looked good.

    No matter, we will miss “the gloved one.”

  294. LisaInTX says:

    The Ark of the Covenant to be revealed on Friday.


  295. tellitlikeitis says:


  296. LisaInTX says:


  297. arlenearmy says:

    Thanks for that video. I listen to Michael & I remember. An icon of the era I grew up on … and it all seems to be fading away as I watch. He truly had talent.

  298. tellitlikeitis says:

    That’s just the cover the congress needs because Michael Jacksons death will be dominating the news all weekend and no one will even pay attention to the cap and trade bill.

  299. m2 says:

    back from dinner….

    you’re right tellit. 😦

  300. ohiobelle says:

    What they say is true… they die in 3’s..

    Ed, Farrah and now sadly Michael Jackson.

  301. SamHenry says:

    He really did want a better world and his songs led the way:

  302. arlenearmy says:

    I was thinking about the same thing. Michael’s death is bad timing.

  303. m2 says:

    it’s comment juxtaposition like this that is somewhat amusing:

    tellitlikeitis // June 25, 2009 at 6:45 pm


    LisaInTX // June 25, 2009 at 6:45 pm


  304. ohiobelle says:

    I can’t believe we’ve lost 3 icons this week. So very very very sad!

  305. VotingFemale says:

    Jackson was never the same after… gee, where would one start…

    It is a shock… rest in peace Michael

  306. rosehips says:

    I was thinking its sad for Farrah’s family in a way. Everyone suddenly forgets about Farrah. Her death will be overshadowed.

    And need I mention the Iranian protesters who are now delegated to yesterday’s news?

    But Michael was one of the biggest. His death at such an early age is huge. He did have a tragic life and I can’t help but think that his suffering is over.

  307. m2 says:

    Don’t Stop Til You Get Enough was my “friday” song. I played it every Friday morning at work when I got there!

  308. arlenearmy says:

    I felt that Michael was gonna be the 3rd of the 3’s. But Rose brought up Carradine. I dont include Carradine in this because of the close timing in death of Ed, Farrah & Michael.

  309. tellitlikeitis says:

    arlenearmy. you are right. Death comes in 3’s. Looks like MJ is number 3.

  310. ohiobelle says:

    Arlene, I never saw this coming. I am honestly shocked. I would’ve guess Patrick before Michael.

  311. m2 says:

    Ohio, this is how I felt when I heard Heath Ledger passed. I was just shocked!!

    I say MJ was “King of Pop” and Elvis was “King of Rock”

  312. tellitlikeitis says:

    Michael Jackson and Farrah both on the same day. really spooky.

  313. ohiobelle says:

    m2, this is how I felt when I heard Anna Nicole Smith and Heath Ledger. It’s just a shock.

  314. m2 says:

    Y’all my dad -he’s kind of a conspiracy kook… like really thinks the Trilateral Commission controls the world, well he said about 7 months ago (in a convo that was heavy on the campaign) that all the “good people are dying off” and the world is shot. Basically.

    But again, my dad is a little kooky.

  315. arlenearmy says:

    This has thus far been a bad year in America. I just dont feel hopeful. Last night I was gonna make a comment on this blog that I wouldn’t be surprise to wake up & find on the news of some iconic figure is reported dead. So much is going on in the news cycle. What will be on the news next.

    I am still in shock myself.

  316. ohiobelle says:

    tellit, I almost asked you earlier if your avatar was half Michael Jackson.

  317. tellitlikeitis says:

    There have been so many news events this week it’s been hard to keep up with all of them. It’s like information overload.

  318. m2 says:

    like, my dad says it’s the beginning of the end here…

  319. rosehips says:

    was it suicide? I just saw an ireport that he swallowed sleeping pills? I think maybe Farrah’s death somehow was too much for him.

  320. m2 says:

    rosehips, I haven’t been on the computer today, but I heard a news minute in the car that the Iranian “massacre” is much larger than was reporter… I’m going to have to go look and see what that news is about.

  321. ohiobelle says:

    Arlene, I think we’ve all been so depressed with what’s happening in America. We’ve turned to the celebrities just to get away from the doom and gloom on the news. I think this is why we are all so shocked.

  322. tellitlikeitis says:

    ohiobelle, It might be but I didn’t create it. I just found it on the net and decided to use it.

  323. ohiobelle says:

    tellit, I think it is a half pic of him. I almost remember getting an email with that picture on it.

  324. tellitlikeitis says:

    Does anyone know if Farrah Faucett and Michael Jackson were close friends? It just seems to wierd that he would die on the same day she did.

  325. m2 says:

    Farah was young too… age 62.

  326. ohiobelle says:

    Rosehips, I doubt it was. His family said he was very excited about his new tour.

    Rosehips wrote: was it suicide? I just saw an ireport that he swallowed sleeping pills?

  327. ohiobelle says:

    Tellit, I’ve never heard of Michael being friends with Farrah.

  328. rosehips says:

    wow, there are some cruel comments on ireports. people saying good riddance to a child molester. His legacy will live on for many years to come.

  329. tellitlikeitis says:

    I don’t believe in speaking ill of the dead. I would like to look beyond his personal life and problems and honor him for the great talent and entertainer that he was.

  330. arlenearmy says:

    It is weird that Farrah & Michael died on same day. I keep having this nagging feeling that something is not right w/this.

    I know some folks are gonna raise an eye brow at this comment, but considering the media attention of all this, I wonder if Sharpton & Jessie Jackson are gonna say something. Well, maybe not because Michael was universal. I mention this because when James Brown died (about same time a former President died) Sharpton capitalized on it.

    The shock of this has to also do w/the era of the Farrah & Michael. America’s 70’s. Ed, Farrah & Michael are part of our fond memories of a time period.

  331. SamHenry says:

    Let iReport be iReport – our gang are into good memories and one of the sign posts of our era.

  332. SamHenry says:

    LA Coronor confirms Michael Jackson has died.

  333. m2 says:

    thanks for the videos SH

  334. m2 says:

    Did y’all see this? I haven’t been in the news or online for most of the day… this from non-biased factual source:


  335. m2 says:


  336. ohiobelle says:

    Sharpton never misses an opportunity to talk or be heard. I might have to turn the station!

  337. SamHenry says:

    I would like to remember the genius of his dance, music and production – the public Michael Jackson.

    I do have problems with how he difigured himself, his relationship with young people and how he had his children and what he had them do (wear veils and masks). The children were almost like toys – part of his vanity. But that is the realm of his private life and I will mention what makes me uncomfortable. He was a creative genius and like all creative genius, he will leave a mark and a legacy.

    Naturally Rev Al Sharpton is now on TV outside the Apollo Theatre copping his memory. He has made himself a spokesman for just about everything.

  338. tellitlikeitis says:

    Arlenearmy, I am superstitious.

  339. SamHenry says:

    Dog overboard. Good to have all been together for this. Amazing we were all on at this time. That’s a good thing.

  340. m2 says:

    My husband couldn’t take “Sharpton” and his “all about me” righteous way of speaking. MJ belonged to us all, why do we have to inject ‘race’ into his death.

    He changed the station to How It’s Made. Most boring show on Earth in my opinion.

    I agree with you too, SH…

  341. m2 says:

    I’m going to the bookstore, we’ll be out of town tomorrow until Monday, but I might have some internet access…

    ttyl all!

  342. SamHenry says:

    M2 Thanks for your appreciation of the vids and etc.

  343. Gosh, what the heck is Al Sharpton doing?

    Arlene??? You are prophetic!

  344. Foxwood says:

    Now Michael Jackson?

  345. tellitlikeitis says:

    I am going to call 2009 now the year of the twilight zone.

  346. ohiobelle says:

    Can you imagine what the next few days are going to be like? Do you think Obama will cancel his luau?

  347. ohiobelle says:

    He probably doesn’t want to return the tiki torches, hula skirts and luau sunglasses… whatever!

    To see Barney Fudd in a hula skirt would be priceless… add the coconut bra and I’d pay for that picture.

  348. ohiobelle says:

    Okay it looks like everybody is gone working on their new tribute. I’ll talk to everybody later. I am going to draw a picture of Banking Queen Barney Fudd in a hula skirt and a tropical straw hat… lol

    RIP Michael Jackon and Farrah Fawcett.

  349. samiam60 says:

    Did the Racist pig Sharpton even mention Farrah or Ed in his all inspiring message to the people?

  350. VotingFemale says:

    Al Sharpton… I saw him sucking up the lime light at the expense of Michael’s death…


    This has been such a depressing week… perhaps it will be capped and traded tomorrow in congress…

    the energy tax is both a curse and a needed wake up call for Americans who are not paying attention… they elected the socialists into power… now lets see them wake the hell up…

    mean while Kim Jung-makes-me-ill needs someone to kick the living crap out of him…

    imagine if Ronald Reagan were president and Kimtard was pulling this crap…

    Reagan would have already put him on notice that if he lays a finger on anyone who is not north korean that he will be in for a terminal experience of biblical proportions… that if he pops a nuke in anyone we will use his country as a nuke disposal site… for obsolete mega tonners… that still work. at the flip of a switch.

  351. LisaInTX says:

    I heard interest service was bogged down. Now I know why my comments kept disappearing…heck the whole screen went white when I submited them….

    I also heard that MJ died of cardiac arrest.
    I’ll always remember how talented and cute he was when he sang the song “Ben”.
    Never believed the ‘stories’ of him molesting children.
    Hope he rests in peace.

  352. VotingFemale says:

    Lisa, I always thought he has a peter pan complex not a child molester … he just did not want to be an adult…

  353. LisaInTX says:

    I agree that MJ’s death will be a great cover for congress to pass all kinds of unconstitutional things that will further destroy we the peoples rights and cost us allot more money.

  354. LisaInTX says:

    I agree with you. He was a big kid. I think he did all that because of his childhood being taken away by his father’s drive for him/them to succeed, no matter what.

  355. LisaInTX says:

    Sharpton is an opportunist wretch!! He makes me sick just seeing his lips move, never mind the vile crap that rolls out from between his gums!

  356. Foxwood says:

    Don’t forget Crap and Trade, and Card Check tomorrow. Call your Senators and Rep.

  357. Foxwood says:

    Morning Lisa. Getting ready for work. It’s my last night on call.

  358. LisaInTX says:

    Hi ya Fox!! Hope you have a great night.

  359. LisaInTX says:

    At least it’s cooling down now….it has been so dang hot around here!!

  360. Foxwood says:

    It’s been getting up to 100 here.

  361. arlenearmy says:

    I had to step outside fence posting while the sun’s going down. I did not see Sharpton’s grand stand. Sharpton was out of order on that because MJ is not considered a “black” figure when he left the Jackson 5 & when Liz Taylor took him under her wings. He went to the top w/out help of affirmative action. He made it off pure talent. When you think MJ you may think Motown BUT you don’t think NAACP & Sharpton.

    I guess the next thing we may hear is Obama sending his condolences to the Michael Jackson family (if not already done so while I was away). But that would be ironic because I don’t think MJ went to the inauguration. Remember, Obama wants to be the pop star.

  362. Foxwood says:

    As soon as this High Pressure move west were it’s supposed to be, everyones weather will go back to normal.

  363. LisaInTX says:

    Yeah that will be great!…it’s been around 100 here too for about 2 weeks and humid on top of that—feels like 106 during the day.

  364. Foxwood says:

    I’m about to turn off the TV and the all Michael Jackson Show.

  365. LisaInTX says:

    I agree. MJ made it on PURE talent!! The Free Market and Capitalist way = The American Dream!!
    Sharpton speaking out was nothing but BAD NEWS and a political ploy to further his OWN self-importance! The man is an old race agitating fool.

  366. LisaInTX says:

    I hear ya….How long are they gonna keep running that story????

  367. LisaInTX says:

    It’s tragic, BUT, we have cap and trade/healthcare, etc…etc….. and a very dirty congress waiting to screw us, so let’s get back to the REAL news that will effect our Nation’s future.

  368. samiam60 says:

    If Reagan were President N. Korea would have got the Nuclear Weapon they desire via a Stealth Bomber and we would have reported it as a massive Nuclear Accident on the North Korean Peninsula. Gee, I hope I didn’t just do a Biden and give away a secret.

    VF said:

    mean while Kim Jung-makes-me-ill needs someone to kick the living crap out of him…

    imagine if Ronald Reagan were president and Kimtard was pulling this crap…

    Reagan would have already put him on notice that if he lays a finger on anyone who is not north korean that he will be in for a terminal experience of biblical proportions… that if he pops a nuke in anyone we will use his country as a nuke disposal site… for obsolete mega tonners… that still work. at the flip of a switch.

  369. Foxwood says:

    Not that I didn’t like MJ. Thriller was one of the best Videos ever made. I want to watch news, and MJ is the news.

  370. arlenearmy says:

    You are right. I have not forgot about that pending vote in congress. We gotta look to the future. I was expecting Hannity tonite, but Geraldo at Large is in his spot. And I again echo your sentiment, Yes we have some pressing issues before us & can’t get distracted.

  371. samiam60 says:

    It is appointed unto man once to die, and then the judgement. That being the case there is no such thing as Rest in Peace.

  372. Foxwood says:

    Morning Arlene, Sami.

  373. samiam60 says:

    Hey Foxwood, how you be. ?

  374. Foxwood says:

    Sami, I’m tired and getting ready for my last night on call.

  375. arlenearmy says:

    Morning Fox …. hey, its evening.

  376. Foxwood says:

    “Morning Fox …. hey, its evening”

    Hard for me to tell when my days and nights are mixed up.

  377. arlenearmy says:

    You must be working swing shifts.

  378. Foxwood says:

    I got to get out the door. I’ll check back on one of my stops.

  379. Foxwood says:

    I go on call one week a month, Arlene.

  380. arlenearmy says:

    ok.. take care & be safe. i’m still trying to cool off from working outside.

  381. samiam60 says:

    Fox thats good news last nite on call. So your a call guy huh? Hey the big yellow ball in the sky is the Sun, it is very hot. The smaller white ball is the Moon, it is quite cold. Knowing that and having an alarm clock is what keeps me a day person.

  382. samiam60 says:

    Where is Rosechips tonight???

  383. samiam60 says:

    Where did everyone go?

    Did the World end or something?

    And why didn’t no one tell me?

  384. karmahd says:

    As tragic and sad as MJ’s death is look how much life he lived in 50 years, some very very good some very very bad.

    “A candle that burns twice as bright, lasts half as long”

    Live in peace, the troubled soul of the artist is now quite.

  385. samiam60 says:

    Yo Karma, how are you?

  386. karmahd says:

    Samiam you are a funny guy!!! LOLOLOLO your above quote is a gas!!!

  387. samiam60 says:

    Thank s Karma, I was getting a little worried here all by myself.

  388. karmahd says:

    OK Sam looking up a lot, waiting for the sky to fall, GAWD, what a week, could this be the beginning of Armageddon??

  389. karmahd says:

    To top that off we are both employed!!!! Right??

  390. karmahd says:

    The world must be ending, it is amazing as tragic as the death of MJ is, the strife of Iran and our financial situation as a nation is taking back seat to this event. I bet that Governor of SC is breathing a little easier!

  391. samiam60 says:

    Karma if it is not the beginning of the end then there is not going to be an end. I have not seen events like this in all of recorded history with the exception being the bible. In the last days knowledge would abound. It sure has in the last 100 years compared to all who lived during recorded history the past 5,000 years.

  392. samiam60 says:

    Karma says:
    To top that off we are both employed!!!! Right??

    Yep and I don’t know about you but I am now earning about 1/3 of what I used to make. Of course I am in a much better tax bracket now. lol
    Thank you for a the Change (in my pocket) Mr. Obama

  393. karmahd says:

    well I am off 40% but in these times I am happy to be working at all!! Lots of craziness, don’t know if there is a patter or just coincidence??

  394. samiam60 says:

    I am in a people business and talk with a good many people everyday. I have yet to meet anyone who is prospering under Obamarama.

  395. samiam60 says:


  396. karmahd says:

    Well no it is the systmatic destruction of the American economy, doing everything he can to bring this country to its knees. He wants to even the playing field for the under served, hell if you are 50 or over like me and you, and most of the people on this blog, what hope is there??

  397. arlenearmy says:

    SC gets a lot of breathing room on this. As morbid as this situation is, it probably has saved some political careers. When we got Iranian slaughter committed before our very eyes, partying & wennie roasting on the WH lawns & death of national icons … all in one week, YEP… the world’s coming to an end.

    Now we got Gretas, Dr. Bogden’s & Geraldo rising to the occasion, sensationalizing.

    A perfect storming is coming our way.

  398. samiam60 says:

    I am alone again on here.

  399. arlenearmy says:

    No sami.. you are not alone.

  400. karmahd says:

    Samiam I am here, Arlene, I saw Gerryalllldoooo this is what he lives for as Greta does! OJ is in jail, who else do the have to focus on?? I am numb, not so much about the death of MJ, but just everything, it seems that this rash of despair just adds to the negative energy or karma if you will of our nation. WE NEED SO GOOD NEWS!!!

  401. arlenearmy says:

    The server seems to be dragging on wordpress. I have to refresh several times.

  402. karmahd says:


  403. samiam60 says:

    Karma Says:
    Well no it is the systmatic destruction of the American economy, doing everything he can to bring this country to its knees. He wants to even the playing field for the under served, hell if you are 50 or over like me and you, and most of the people on this blog, what hope is there??
    Arlene says ” Perfect Storm”

    I see it this way. Bankrupt us over 50 people and force into Socialize Healthcare and then just uthenize our sorry buts and save Social Security. Whal-la. I most likely spelled Uthenize wrong but who really cares.

  404. samiam60 says:

    Arlene I would like to refresh my life.

  405. samiam60 says:

    I think I may have a case of Rectal Octolitice. or a sh!t e out look on life in America now a days.

  406. karmahd says:

    Well Samiam there is still a hell of a lot of fight in this dog. I will not go down with out swinging!!! Move to the mountains bring my arsenal, and tools build a hut, live off the land, and of course a DSL line LOL

  407. samiam60 says:

    Member the song from Annie. The Sun comes up tomorrow, ???? That’s all we got folks.

  408. arlenearmy says:

    Karma & SamI
    Something or somebody is rolling dice. And its shaking & rolling fast. One day we may wake up to latest breaking news of snake eyes. Will it be tomorrow ?.. 3 days from now ? .. next week ? Maybe in next 30 minutes.

  409. karmahd says:

    The problem is that we have been in this downturn for close to two years, and it looks as if we will be in the trough for at least another 2-3 just about time for a new election. And you know what I will tell you now, the democrats will blame the situation on George Bush!!! I say bullshit, if Bomwow would have cut taxes, not bailed out everyone and his brother, tightened the belt we would be coming out of this mini depression in the next quarter or two. The way it looks now, we have seen all the bounce we are going to see, and we will continue to have negative GDP for 4-6 quarters, not good news but a light at the end of the tunnel. But then comes payday for Bomwows spending in about 7-10 years, and where in the hell are we going to get the money to pay that bill??? NO BODY HAS THAT ANSWER!!!

  410. SamHenry says:

    Belle said:

    Okay it looks like everybody is gone working on their new tribute.

    Belle – lol – you are something. Work on a tribute?

    Yes to the American people who had whiplash last week looking in the direction of the troubles in Iran and then looking in the direction of Obama – a trouble maker – in Washington. Wimbleton.

    So here’s to the American people who reached out to the Iranians and to the Iranians who reached out to the Americans in spite of both governments. Thank god for the innate goodness of most people in the world.

  411. samiam60 says:

    For a while I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel. It turned out to be a train. The Obama train not the frog tunnel he is funding for 3 million.

  412. karmahd says:

    And you know what, people are getting pissed! But you are correct the sun will come up tomorrow, and like the old zen saying what is most important to you when someone is holding your head under water?? AIR, ya have to learn to appreciate the little things in times like these and don’t let it get you down, if your breathing you have a chance I say. We are older, smarter not idealistic, and know what hard work is and will freely do so if called. We actually have a hand up, even if father time is pushing it back down!

  413. arlenearmy says:

    Hey you guys… lets keep hope alive. Karma, I dont know about the DSL in the wilderness. Look what happeneded Iran. Those folks could hardly get their videos out the country. For all we know, Mouvavi (or who ever his name is) would be dead & we dont what the hell is going on.

    China’s trying to push that filtering software.. hint !! hint !!!

  414. SamHenry says:

    Hi Sami You’re not alone. The ole black dog is here. All of these movie stars aside, the real heroes have been not them but the American and Iranian people as I said above. We were both magnificent. In the end, the lives of most movie stars are no worth emulating. But the heroism of the Persian people who dared to reach out to the American people and the overwhelming response of the American people to them was worth emulating.

    Of course, Sami, our conversations aren’t shabby. We are worth emulating.

  415. samiam60 says:

    Right on Karma, your economics is just that. If the economy turns around in 2 or 3 years in time for the election, guess what? 4 more years !

  416. SamHenry says:

    Frog tunnel? Are we building a tunnel to France?

  417. samiam60 says:

    Samhenry you came on just in time to lift our spirits with your good ole common sense. Thank you so much.

  418. samiam60 says:

    Obama pork barrel spending is funding a tunnel for frogs. Yep you heard me right. FROGS

  419. SamHenry says:

    I’m common alright but I don’t have much sense. It is raining here and I just came from donating $95 dollars to the grocery store in return for not much.

  420. samiam60 says:

    I guess he don’t want them to Croak, lol

  421. LisaInTX says:

    “Now that the cameras have been put away and the media is no longer watching, their secret emerges: They are going to cut medical costs by cutting medical care. Right now…. These decisions will not be medical but financial. They will not be based on a doctor’s opinion of what his or her patient needs, but a bureaucrat’s and an accountant s opinion of what the new health care system can afford.”

    So says, political pundit, Dick Morris. But that’s not all. Morris issues the following dire warning:

    “But this is just the very beginning… rationing is coming, and coming soon.”

    To paraphrase Morris; if you need a CAT Scan or an MRI, forget it. If you need antibiotics, forget it.

    As for potentially life-saving or life-extending treatments, take a number and stand in line.

    Is that why Barack Obama wants to bankrupt the nation?

    Isn’t America a republic? Do we not all have the God-given rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

    Obama describes his health care scheme with the usual pie-in-the-sky rhetoric, claiming – with fingers crossed behind his back – that his approach will heal the sick, miraculously reduce costs, and resurrect a moribund health system.

    Obama has already told you that if you want to keep your doctor, you’ll be able to keep your doctor and if you want to keep your present health plan, you’ll be able to keep your present health plan.

    Specifically, Obama said:

    “If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period. If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period. No one will take it away.”

    But Obama can’t keep that promise and he knows it.

    Jim Lindgren writing for the Internet blog the Volokh Conspiracy:

    “But if the Obama plan is enacted, a substantial portion of employers will cut their health subsidies — raising their employees’ share of contributions to the company plan — in order to drive some of the employees into the government exchange and the public option. Other employers may drop their plans altogether — after all, workers could buy their own coverage in the government exchange — or simply fund part of their workers’ participation in the exchange. These changes, which would be the direct results of the implementation of the Obama plan, would make it virtually impossible for Obama to keep these promises….”

    But will keeping your doctor or your health care provider really matter when government bureaucrats start calling the shots and telling your doctor and provider exactly what they can and cannot do… what they are allowed to treat… what they’re allowed to pay.

    Make no mistake, Obama’s takeover of health care will be nothing more than a raw power grab, more cutting than his takeover of the banks and the automobile industry. Its goal will not be to improve health care but, to reward political allies – and punish people like you.

    You can stop him by letting the Congressional leadership know – right now… today – that there will be a political price to pay if they allow the world’s best health care system turn into a medical wasteland.
    Use the hyperlink below to send your urgent Blast Fax messages to Barack Obama and each and every Member of the Republican and Democrat leadership of the United States Senate and the United States House of Representatives.

    Tell them to reject any temptation to compromise or fix the Obama-Care proposals that will be thrust upon them. Tell them that the only option is to reject the Obama plan outright. No compromises… no fixes… tell our elected leaders to just say no and when it comes to health care, to go back to the drawing board.

    Let’s examine the real repercussions of health care rationing?

    Think of it this way, to Obama (and other Statists), people represent health costs. The fewer people, the lower the costs.

    Are we saying that Obama will target the elderly, the handicapped and the unborn to reduce costs?

    Consider Obama’s own words remarks as reprinted in the Washington Times and make that call yourself.

    “Part of what I think government can do effectively is to be an honest broker in assessing and evaluating treatment options.”

    Obama also said:

    “The chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health care bill….”

    Regarding those in the last phases of life, Obama specifically says:

    “There is going to have to be a conversation that is guided by doctors, scientists, ethicists. And then there is going to have to be a very difficult democratic conversation that takes place. It is very difficult to imagine the country making those decisions just through the normal political channels.”

    Obama’s top health advisers have emphasized that America should value the lives of young, healthy people more than those of old, sick individuals.

    One such adviser is Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, brother of Obama’s chief-of-staff Rahm Emanuel.

    Kevin Williamson of National Review Online describes Dr. Emanuel’s views:

    “He wrote in The Lancet in 2008: ‘Unlike allocation by sex or race, allocation by age is not invidious discrimination.’ We all were young once, the argument goes, and so denying the elderly and weak in order to care for the young and fit is just.”

    Just what do you think Obama’s talking about here? Trust me, these are scary times and if you’re over the age of 55, be very scared. If you’re chronically ill with diabetes or high blood pressure or multiple sclerosis – or dying with heart disease or cancer – your future doesn’t look very bright.

    Would Obama empower the federal government and bureaucratic pencil-pushers to decide exactly when your presence on earth is no longer feasible, viable or sustainable?

    Do we really want to find out the answer the hard way?

    Obama claims that his health plan won’t involve rationing or reduced care. But that’s ridiculous, because all government-run health systems suffer from those drawbacks.

    For a real-world, practical example, we only need look at the Canadian system.

    Dr. David Gratzer, a Canadian-trained physician who practices in the United States, describes his own revelation about Canada’s medical horror show:

    “On [my way to medical school class]… I cut through a hospital emergency room and came upon dozens of people on stretchers – waiting, moaning, begging for treatment. Some elderly patients had waited up to five days in corridors before being admitted to beds. They smelled of urine and sweat. As I navigated past the bodies, I began to question everything I thought I knew about health care – not only in Canada, but also in the United States. … I had begun a journey into the heart of one of the great policy disasters of modern times.”

    Is the situation really any better in Europe – should we, for instance, emulate the French?

    Consider a French journalist’s words at the Heritage Foundation:

    “The majority of France’s state-owned hospitals are managed in a way that is reminiscent of the old U.S.S.R. … In the average French public hospital, it is not uncommon for every window to be open, even in winter, because the heating system in the building cannot be regulated. With the only options being no heat or unbearably high heat, everyone opts for the latter. Predictably, this is not very cheap.”

    What about Germany? The British medical journal Lancet states:

    “The German health care system is facing bankruptcy on an unprecedented scale.”

    In Great Britain, one current cost-saving measure is the denial of essential medications to women in advanced stages of certain cancers.

    And yet, on June 15, Barack Obama told the American Medical Association (AMA) that other developed countries – he meant nations like Canada, Germany, France, and Britain – pay much less per capita for health care than Americans.

    Tell us something we don’t know… you also get exactly what you pay for.

    So why does Obama want to bring millions of people into the system literally overnight? What happens when there are suddenly many more patients than there are practitioners to care for them?

    Will the health care system start to follow the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) model… where you take-a-number…. and wait… and then wait some more?

    And if you’re really sick, what are the chances that you might die in line, waiting for treatment that simply does not come in time?

    Dr. Gratzer tells us what’s going on in Canada:

    “I trained in emergency rooms that were chronically, chaotically, dangerously overcrowded… all across Canada. I met a middle-aged man with sleep problems who was booked for an appointment with a specialist three years later; a man with pain… who was referred to a pain clinic with a two-year wait list; a woman with breast cancer who was asked to wait for four months before starting the life-saving radiation therapy.”

    When you consider the evils of health care rationing, consider the following.

    Addressing the AMA, Obama implied that costs were rising because patients were getting unneeded care. In fact, the opposite is true.

    A 2003 survey by the Rand Corporation found that only 11% of patients got treatments they didn’t need – while a whopping 46% failed to receive needed care.

    And strangely, there’s tremendous irony in Obama’s mindless drive toward a government-run system.

    In Great Britain, France, Germany – and even Canada – there’s a growing push to get people back into private insurance systems, taking the pressure off public facilities and doctors. It’s a move toward – you guessed it – government cost savings.

    It’s time to tell Congress – loudly and clearly – that falling off a cliff is hazardous to our health, as individuals and as a nation.

  422. arlenearmy says:

    considering the string of current events that does not look hopeful, I have a strange feeling that something bad has happened to Mousavi (probably misspelling his name). What if he has been killed? Something is going very wrong. We have not seen any recent Iranian videos lately. I just got a strange feeling in my gut on this.

  423. samiam60 says:

    $95.00, SH, let me pm you my address,lol

  424. SamHenry says:

    I can’t afford to keep my own doctor. I have to watch out for myself. He will eat me out of house and home. No he will just have to find his own place to live.

  425. karmahd says:

    Yeah I can eat on that for two weeks, and I am a big guy!! Samiam, there is no way Bomwow will get back into office, the economy and the spending and all the shit that is going to surface between now and election time, plus the middle and the right have been ignited!! All we need is a candidate LOL Who is coming up to the plate

    Arlene, they have satellite Internet, it just is expensive, and I am kidding if I went ghost in the woods I would not want a signal to be tracked back via a cell phone or any GSM.

  426. SamHenry says:

    Seriously Lisa – I will contact my reps. However, I don’t hold much hope in a Democrat-riddled state.

  427. karmahd says:

    OK gotta run good to talk to the Sam’s and hey Lisa, always good to see you, I will check in the morning. Karma

  428. SamHenry says:

    OK and here comes Al Sharpton AGAIN on CNN with Anderson Cooper. I guess he is making the rounds.

  429. samiam60 says:

    Thanks Lisa for that info. I should probably take a number now at my local VA hospital and start my wait before I get sick. The VA hospital is already very much as you have described above. Just ask Arlene.

  430. samiam60 says:

    Good night all, I too must turn in and rest up so I can face tomorrow. Gods speed to all.

  431. arlenearmy says:

    I don’t believe nothing that comes out of Obama’s mouth. We are on our own. Its like riding on canoe w/out a paddle downstream.

    He is over exposing himself on the news. I don’t know anyone who watched ABC news yesterday. Seriously, I’m talking about Liberals didn’t even watch Obama on ABC. Folks are getting numb on that dude. I don’t think most believe that health care talk he’s yapping. Even the poorest liberal I know realize in their heart that Obama’s not gonna give them good health care.

    He got on news today & truthfully, I couldn’t tell you what he was talking about. When I see his mouth moving, I subconsciously tune him out.

  432. SamHenry says:

    Strong Memorial Hospital in Rochester is the best BUT don’t go to Emergency. I had a friend in critical condition who did not get help for 5 hours. Then she was shipped off to another hospital. It is bad now – can’t get worse. What drives me crazy is the politics of VA hospitals. Every year at budget time they target certain ones for closing and people have to waste time defending their facility when they need to keep serving clients.

    Sami – does Arlene work at a VA hospital?

  433. arlenearmy says:

    Oh I no.. I don’t work for VA. I’m a frequent visitor exercising her veterans rights. As long as Im in my right mind, I will survive the VA. Its not easy. But the moment they think the vet is getting senile that’s when the vet gets the shaft.

  434. SamHenry says:

    Arlene – didn’t see you here. Do you work in a VA hospital or do you just use it out there?

    I agree with you and I think all of your blog buddies would agree with your assessment that we are in for something sooner rather than later. It is the beginning of the end.

  435. SamHenry says:

    Just as there are large disparities between health facilities on Indian Reservations there are wide disparities between VA facilities. I get so tired of fighting for what we deserve – don’t you?

  436. ohiobelle says:

    This is not confirmed but I found this on twitter…

    Report: Michael Jackson “collapsed after an injection of potent Demerol” http://bit.ly/kptZ2

  437. ohiobelle says:

    That would explain why his doctor was at his place during the time of his death. I believe this is credible.

  438. arlenearmy says:

    They are trying to wear us down.

    I hope nobody gave MJ that injection.

    I have noticed that Sharpton appears to have lost weight. His face looks punie. I wonder if Sharpton is ill.

  439. ohiobelle says:

    Okay I have to get back to Barney Fudd in a hula skirt… lol

  440. ohiobelle says:


    It looks like his doctor did it. That is not confirmed but why else would he be there??

    Arlene wrote: Ohio,
    I hope nobody gave MJ that injection.

  441. ohiobelle says:

    Anna Nicole Smith probable felt safe with her care takers by her side… hmm….

    This sounds like a terrible accident.

  442. arlenearmy says:

    I dont think the medical examiner is gonna tell the truth. That Dr. would risk backlash, just like Anna Nichol’s Dr.

    The rabbit hole may go deeper than I thought. No telling who that Dr. is connected with.

  443. ohiobelle says:

    Arlene, you could be right.

    I am going to log off. Have a nice evening.

  444. arlenearmy says:

    Alright. You take care. I’m going to try to wind down for the night. Its been a stressful day. Nite.

    And nite to everybody else. Hopefully we all will awake to better stuff on the news.

  445. Foxwood says:

    Looks like everyone left. Guess I’ll start up the coffee pot again. Gonna be a long one.

  446. LisaInTX says:

    A message to all members of Patriotic Resistance

    ++ Obama Meeting to Push Amnesty
    Yesterday, the White House said that immigration reform is unlikely to move forward this year. Then in the next breath, they announced a closed-door meeting with bi-partisan lawmakers this Thursday to discuss the issues!

    The on again, off again White House meeting is back on again, and I’m calling on members of the Grassfire and ResistNet team to unleash a firestorm of faxes and phone calls protesting what is most certainly a closed-door meeting to strategize the best way to move comprehensive immigration reform forward.
    *** Check out the “Resist Net In Focus :Amnesty Is Coming” article to see how you can help. (Located in middle column of the ResistNet home page.)
    ++ Carbon Tax Fast-Tracked
    We have just learned that Pelosi and key Democrats have struck yet another back-room deal to force a floor vote massive cap- and -trade Carbon Tax to the House this Friday.Our reports indicate that many members of Congress, especially Democrats in agriculture and coal state, are still undecided.
    Check out the “ResistNet In Focus: The Carbon Tax” to see how you can help! (located in the middle column of the ResistNet home page.)

  447. LisaInTX says:

    TOMORROW (Friday), the House will vote on the Pelosi/ Obama-
    pushed massive carbon tax — what the Wall Street Journal
    today is calling the “biggest tax in American history.”

    That means we have just a few hours left to voice our opposition.

    The Journal says the bill “defies the laws of economics” and
    then lambasts the Congressional Budget Office for totally
    ignoring the negative effects on the economy this bill will cause.

    For example, Heritage Foundations estimates that the cap-and-trade
    Carbon Tax will:

    “Reduce aggregate Gross Domestic Product (GDP) by
    $9.6 trillion”

    “Destroy up to 2.5 million jobs in some years”

    “Raise electric rates 90%, gasoline prices by 74%, and
    natural gas prices by 55% after adjusting for inflation”

    “Raise a typical family’s average annual energy bill
    by $1,500.”

    Thousands of Grassfire team members have taken action this
    week — with a flood of faxes and phone calls in the past 24 hours.

    But we must increase the pressure, especially on the Democrats
    in agriculture and coal states who are still undecided.

    I am asking every Grassfire team member — even if you already
    took action this week — to take immediate action in two ways:
    #1 — Send Faxes Now!

    We must let every member of the House know that citizens
    do NOT want yet another enormous tax and government
    bureaucracy! We oppose their massive carbon taxing
    scheme! Go here to send your faxes:


    If you prefer to send your faxes, please use the fax numbers
    and sample fax letters provided above.

    #2– Call your Rep today!

    Call your Representative and key House leaders and tell them you
    oppose H.R. 2454!

    Key House leaders or undecideds to call:

    Rep. Collin Peterson (Ag Committee Chair): 202-225-2165
    (Peterson just caved and is now supporting the bill)

    Rep. Tim Holden (Ag Cmmtte Vice Chair): 202-225-5546

    Rep. Tim Walz (MN) 202-225-2472

    Rep. Mike McIntyre (NC): 202-225-2731

    Rep. Henry Cuellar (TX): 202-225-1640

    Rep. David Scott (GA): 202-225-2939

    Talking Points:

    1. I oppose the cap-and-trade Carbon Tax. This is an outrageous
    power grab by the federal government that will greatly expand
    government control and increase energy costs for my family.

    2. This system of “allocations” has failed in Europe and will
    politicize America’s energy policy.

    3. Especially in these difficult economic times, Congress must
    not pass this tax on the American people!

    Thanks for taking a stand!

    Steve Elliott, President

    P.S. I have included a link to the Wall Street Journal article
    as well as the Heritage Foundation analysis on our ResistNet site:


  448. LisaInTX says:

    “Work as if you were to live 100 Years, Pray as if you were to die To-morrow.”

    –Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard’s Almanack, 1757

  449. Foxwood says:

    Hey Lisa, Just checking in. Looks like I missed you.

  450. samiam60 says:

    Good Morning to all as you arrive. I put the coffee on and have the sweet rolls in the oven.

  451. VotingFemale says:

    Cool samiam! And a good morning to you, dear!

  452. SamHenry says:

    Hail Great Cat and Sami. VF your writing was so superb yesterday in this piece in particular that ended with:

    Reagan would have already put him on notice that if he lays a finger on anyone who is not north korean that he will be in for a terminal experience of biblical proportions… that if he pops a nuke in anyone we will use his country as a nuke disposal site… for obsolete mega tonners… that still work. at the flip of a switch.

  453. SamHenry says:

    Aside from Rosie and me, the flashes you really have to watch are Kimmy’s. I’ll just bet all of this attention shifting to Iran and then to the celebrities caused him to throw a parade for himself of something. Actually, during this period, he chose to put us on notice he will wipe us off the map. Now there’s a flash!

  454. SamHenry says:

    It just occurred to me that dealing with Kimmy would be easier than we imagine if, instead of yet another ambassador we gave him a Hollywood agent and the hope of a film career. He wouldn’t want to bomb Hollywood.

  455. samiam60 says:

    To all my dog loving friends a tribute to what we stand for.

  456. SamHenry says:

    Love it Sami. I say we give Kim Jong-il a N. Korean hating wolf.

  457. samiam60 says:

    I say we send KimJong-ill a bottle of 10 million sunblock.

  458. SamHenry says:

    I have to get ready to take my little JRT to the vet this am. She will be having her teeth cleaned. Since she has to be put to sleep anyway, we are removing the benign tumor. It had been growing and if they get large enough, they have to be removed.

  459. samiam60 says:

    Sorry to hear that SH. It is tuff loving a companion that is so faithful. There is nothing we won’t do for them.

  460. SamHenry says:

    LOL 10 million sunblock. And possibly some eye shadow.

    Sorry I have to dash. I love our early morning chats. Say hello to le chat when you see her. Later

    Dog overboard.

  461. SamHenry says:

    PS Sami – speaking of wolf-like behavior. Try getting through the night with a JRT who can’t have anything after 10 PM. She had me up at regular intervals. Poor Sam Henry my lab was very understanding but is also very hungry. I hated eating in front of them.

  462. VotingFemale says:

    Good Morning and thank you dear!

    Kim Jong makes-me-ill is like a school yard bully and it is no secret how bullies have to be dealt with.

    SamHenry says

    Hail Great Cat and Sami. VF your writing was so superb yesterday in this piece in particular that ended with:

    Reagan would have already put him on notice that if he lays a finger on anyone who is not north korean that he will be in for a terminal experience of biblical proportions… that if he pops a nuke in anyone we will use his country as a nuke disposal site… for obsolete mega tonners… that still work. at the flip of a switch.

  463. VotingFemale says:

    samh, Sorry to hear about the health problems with your doggie… sigh. I wish they lived longer.

    I recently lost my dear 8 year old kitty… he got out of the house through a window screen that had gotten somewhat dislodged from his sun naps.

    For the first time in his life he got outside and without me seeing him do it, he wandered away then apparently got lost. I looked for him for days… it really really upset me.

  464. VotingFemale says:

    I will be away for a while writing a new blogpost…

  465. karmahd says:

    Fly by flashing………..Do some of you sleep?? GAWD up late up early, makes me grumpy. Hope you all have a good day. morning all

  466. VotingFemale says:

    Hi-Bye Karma! I am busy with the last details of a new blogpost…

    Check Back later! You need to read it!!!!

  467. Pingback: Do liberals support the kind of socialized healthcare that Native Americans receive?

  468. Pingback: Rep Ahn Cao? Get out of my sight, traitor « VotingFemale Speaks!

Comments are closed.