Socialist Political Master Race Maintains their Ownership of the Black Race as their Weapon to Gain Power

Modern Day Socialist Master Race's Grip on African Americans

Modern Day Socialist Master Race's Grip on African Americans

The theme I see repeated over and over again by the Socialist Party leaders in the past and today, such as Presidents Truman, Johnson, Clinton, and Obama is this…. “If we don’t attend to, and manage, and provide for the African-American Population, who will?”

Well excuse me all to hell… Since when did the Socialist Master Race own any race?

Why did the Socialist Master Race capitalize on the misfortunes of anti-black racism to subvert African Americans into their personal property instead of engaging in bipartisan efforts to free folks from historic suppression to self-flourish in a Free Market Economy like everyone else?

Why is it that the Socialist Master Race jealously guards their ownership of African Americans and preach constantly that Free Market Conservatism is anti-African American?

Because the black vote is one of the paths upon which the Socialist Master Race seeks power to control the US Government and make all people property of the Government.

The Socialist Master Race preaches that everyone but them are racist… yet, what is more racist than Political ownership a Race? for their so-called “own good?”

There are many African American Conservatives trapped  in the clutches of Obama’s Socialist Party… and it is like being trapped in “The Matrix.” They can not see the very whips and chains with binds them to the Socialist Master Race.

Let’s take a look at an Article written by an African American who saw, and still sees, the chains and whips of the Socialist Master Race for what what it was and is… and the freedom which the Socialist Master Race wants to deny all Americans… Blacks and Whites.

The Loneliness of the “Black Conservative”

By Shelby Steele

Hoover fellow Shelby Steele on the price of his convictions.

steele-shelby I realized that I was a black conservative when I found myself standing on stages being shamed in public. I had written a book that said, among many other things, that black American leaders were practicing a politics that drew the group into a victim-focused racial identity that, in turn, stifled black advancement more than racism itself did. For reasons that I will discuss shortly, this was heresy in many quarters. And, as I traveled around from one little Puritan village (read “university”) to another, a common scene would unfold.

Whenever my talk was finished, though sometimes before, a virtual militia of angry black students would rush to the microphones and begin to scream. At first I thought of them as Mau Maus but decided this was unfair to the real Mau Maus, who, though ruthless terrorists, had helped bring independence to Kenya in the 1950s. My confronters were not freedom fighters; they were Carrie Nation–like enforcers, racial bluenoses who lived in terror of certain words. Repression was their game, not liberation, and they said as much. “You can’t say that in front of the white man.” “Your words will be used against us.” “Why did you write this book?” “You should only print that in a black magazine.” Their outrage brought to light an ironic and unnoticed transformation in the nature of black American anger from the sixties to the nineties: a shift in focus from protest to suppression, from blowing the lid off to tightening it down. And, short of terrorism, shame is the best instrument of repression.

Of course, most black students did not behave in this way. But the very decency of the majority, black and white, often made the shaming of the minority more effective. So I learned what it was like to stand before a crowd in which a coterie of one’s enemies had the license to shame, while a mixture of decorum and fear silenced the decent people who might have come to one’s aid. I was as vulnerable to the decency as to the shaming since together they amounted to shame. And it is never fun to be called “an opportunist,” “a house slave,” and so on while university presidents sit in the front row and avert their eyes. But this really is the point: The goal of shaming was never to win an argument with me; it was to make a display of shame that would make others afraid for themselves, that would cause eyes to avert. I was more the vehicle than the object, and what I did was almost irrelevant. Shame’s victory was in the averted eyes, the cowering of decency.


After the sixties, victimization became so rich a vein of black power that it was allowed not only to explain black fate but to explain it totally.


Today a public “black conservative” will surely meet a stunning amount of animus, demonization, misunderstanding, and flat-out, undifferentiated contempt. And there is a kind of licensing process involved here in which the black leadership—normally protective even of people like Marion Barry and O. J. Simpson—licenses blacks and whites to have contempt for the black conservative. It is a part of the group’s manipulation of shame to let certain of its members languish outside the perimeter of group protection where even politically correct whites (who normally repress criticism of blacks) can show contempt for them.

Not long ago I heard a white female professional at a racially mixed dinner table call Clarence Thomas an incompetent beneficiary of affirmative action—the same woman whom I had heard on another occasion sneer at the idea that affirmative action stigmatized women and minorities as incompetent. Feminists who happily vote for Bill Clinton are free to loathe Clarence Thomas. In a sense Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, Ward Connerly, Stanley Crouch, myself, and many, many others represent a new class of “unprotected” blacks. By my lights there is something a little avant-garde in this. But, as with any avant-garde, the greater freedom is paid for in a greater exposure to contempt and shame.

The Czech writer Milan Kundera—a man whose experience under the hegemony of the Communist Party taught him much about the shaming power of groups over the individual—says that shame transforms a person “from a subject to an object,” causes shamed persons to lose their “status as individuals.” And to suffer this fate means that the group—at least symbolically—has determined to annihilate you. Of course we have no gulags in black America, but black group authority—like any group authority—defines itself as much by whom it annihilates as by whom it celebrates. Thus it not only defines group, it also defines grouplessness. And here, on this negative terrain, where his or her exclusion sharpens the group identity, the black conservative lingers as a kind of antithesis.

But is this loneliness? I’m not sure.

The problem for the black conservative is more his separation from the authority of his racial group than from the actual group. He stands outside a group authority so sharply defined and monolithic that it routinely delivers more than 90 percent of the black vote to whatever Democrat runs for president. The black conservative may console himself with the idea that he is on the side of truth, but even truth is cold comfort against group authority (which very often has no special regard for truth). White supremacy focused white America’s group authority for three centuries before truth could even begin to catch up. Group authority is just as likely to be an expression of collective ignorance as of truth; but it is always, in a given era, more powerful than truth.

All of this is made worse by the fact that black Americans have been a despised minority surrounded by indifference and open hatred. An individual’s failure of group love is a far greater infraction among blacks because it virtually allies that individual with the enemy all around. An Uncle Tom is someone whose failure to love his own people makes him an accessory to their oppression. So group love (in one form or another) is a preoccupation in black life because of the protective function it serves, because we want to use the matter of love as a weapon of shame and thus as an enforcer of conformity. Love adds the seriousness and risk to nonconformity.

If this gives black America the means to enforce its group authority—and its explanation of its fate—it also plagues us with a repressive, one-party politics. Because of historic vulnerability and the resulting insistence on conformity around a single strategic explanation of group fate, black America has not yet achieved a two-party politics. Thus black conservatives do not yet constitute a loyal opposition; they are, instead, classic dissenters. This differentiates them from white conservatives, who work out of a two-party group. In his dissent from a one-party–one-explanation group politics, the black conservative lives the life of a dissenter, a life too conspicuously gambled on belief, a life openly subversive to his own group and often impractical for himself—a life at odds.

What, in fact, is a black conservative?

Well, he is not necessarily a Republican or free-market libertarian or religious fundamentalist, pro-lifer, trickle-down economist, or neocon. I have met blacks in all these categories who are not considered conservatives.

The liberal-conservative axis is a bit different for blacks than for Americans generally. Under his American identity a black Republican is conservative, but under his racial identity he may be quite liberal. Many black Republicans, for example, are intense supporters of preferential affirmative action and thus liberal in terms of their group identity. (Colin Powell is a case in point, as is Arthur Fletcher, a black Republican who helped President Nixon introduce America’s first racial preference in the famous “Philadelphia Plan.”) But the “new” black conservatives—the ones who have recently become so controversial—may even be liberal by their American identity but are definitely conservative by the terms of their group identity. It is their dissent from the explanation of black group authority that brings them the “black conservative” imprimatur. Without this dissent we may have a black Republican but not a “black conservative,” as the term has come to be used.

And what is this explanation of black group authority? In a word it is victimization. Not only is victimization made to explain the hard fate of blacks in American history, but it is also asked to explain the current inequalities between blacks and whites and the difficulties blacks have in overcoming them. Certainly no explanation of black difficulties would be remotely accurate were it to ignore racial victimization. On the other hand, victimization does not in fact explain the entire fate of blacks in America, nor does it entirely explain their difficulties today. It was also imagination, courage, the exercise of free will, and a very definite genius that enabled blacks not only to survive victimization but also to create a great literature, utterly transform Western music, help shape the American language, expand and deepen the world’s concept of democracy, influence popular culture around the globe, and so on. No people with this kind of talent, ingenuity, and self-inventiveness would allow victimization so singularly to explain their fate unless it had become a primary source of power. And this is precisely what happened after the sixties. Victimization became so rich a vein of black power—even if it was only the power to “extract” reforms (with their illusion of deliverance) from the larger society—that it was allowed not only to explain black fate but to explain it totally.


The black woman journalist sitting across from me was young and Ivy League educated, and she might have been an advertisement for any number of blessings, including good fortune. “I don’t think we can tell the story of our victimization enough,” she said.


A black woman journalist I met recently for lunch said, “I don’t think we can tell the story of our victimization enough.” We were talking about an article she was writing. She was young, Ivy League educated, and, sitting across from me in the patio restaurant, she might have been an advertisement for any number of blessings—good health, good upbringing, good fortune. Politely we argued about how much victimization blacks were still subjected to. I said it was number three or four on the list of things that held blacks back. She said it was number one. And here we had arrived at one of the most telling impasses two black Americans can reach. Her number-one ranking aligned her with the explanation of black fate on which black group authority rests. For her, victimization was not a fact of black life, it was the fact. It was a totalism—an ultratruth that not only supersedes but that makes a taboo of all other truths. My lower ranking of racism as a barrier violated this taboo, put me at odds with black group authority, and made me, alas, a “black conservative.”

Very simply, then, a black conservative is a black who dissents from the victimization explanation of black fate when it is offered as a totalism—when it is made the main theme of group identity and the raison d’être of a group politics.

The young journalist was a liberal and in harmony with black group authority because of a predetermined willingness, even commitment, to seeing two things: that black difficulty in America was the result of ongoing racial victimization and that white America was responsible for bringing change. The only time she transgressed her natural politeness was when she smugly said, “Well, obviously we have a different time schedule as to when white people ought to be let off the hook.” Certainly even a black conservative would not want to let white people off the hook. And yet, as time marches on, I can’t help but feel that a far greater danger for blacks is the belief that doing so makes a difference. What is clear is that a group politics devoted to keeping whites on the hook also requires that victimization be a totalism in black life—that it define group identity, become a part of the self-image of individual blacks, and keep in play a permanently contentious relationship with whites.

I said to her that when victimization is treated as a totalism, it keeps us from understanding the true nature of our suffering. It leads us to believe that all suffering is victimization and that all relief comes from the guilty good-heartedness of others. But people can suffer from bad ideas, from ignorance, fear, a poor assessment of reality, and from a politics that commits them to the idea of themselves as victims, among other things. When black group authority covers up these other causes of suffering just so whites will feel more responsible—and stay on the hook—then that authority actually encourages helplessness in its own people so that they might be helped by whites. It tries to make black weakness profitable by selling it as the white man’s burden.

“But isn’t it really about power? And if victimization brings power, it’s the power that counts.” She surprised me. I hadn’t realized she was even listening. “I mean, you could say that whites got power by killing the Indians and enslaving the blacks. That’s worse than using your history of victimization to get power. People get power all sorts of ways.”

We were outside the restaurant now, and she was hurrying to cover the few blocks to her rented car to make her next appointment. Working to keep pace, I suddenly felt a familiar doubt. Let’s call it the black conservative doubt—the feeling that one is talking into a void, that one might be right, might even have a compelling piece of truth, but that it is a truth unattached to any necessity, a truth with no means of enforcing itself. Often people don’t listen as much for the truth as for the necessity that will hold them accountable to the truth. Failing to hear any such necessity, they can conclude that the truth itself has no relevance.

The great problem for the black conservative is that the necessity of his or her truth is hidden so that it seems irrelevant, academic. What keeps it hidden is the symbiosis between whites and blacks by which they agree to let victimization totally explain black difficulty. Whites agree to stay on this hook for an illusion of redemption, and blacks agree to keep them there for an illusion of power. I can say that these investments are illusions, that whites have no real redemption, and that blacks have no real power, but then what do I have? That’s really what the young journalist was saying to me as we walked to her car. Government, corporate America, universities, foundations—they were all in the business of seeing blacks as victims, of trading an illusion of power for an illusion of redemption. Everybody was practiced in these negotiations, so the fact that they encouraged helplessness in blacks, kept them mired in a victim-focused identity, gave them a disinvestment in success and an investment in failure . . . well. The black conservative is at odds with a very cozy and very functional symbiosis, and there is always something to be said for function. He may believe that there are bodies under the floorboards, but until that truth is more widely understood, there is not much necessity in what he says.

I was not surprised when we turned a corner and came upon the journalist’s rental car. It was a huge, white Lincoln Towncar with plush leather upholstery, and it sat so regally on the street that the smaller cars around it seemed to compose its court. I thought she might apologize for it, as people often do with their ostentations, but she said only that she had a “good” expense account. After quickly shaking my hand good-bye, she swung open the driver’s door and all but plunged in. In a moment the white boat was floating down the street.


A Dream Deferred, by Shelby Steele, was recently published by HarperCollins. For ordering information, visit the HarperCollins web site at www.harpercollins.com. Available from the Hoover Press is the Hoover Essay Race, Culture, and Equality, by Thomas Sowell. To order, call 800-935-2882.


Shelby Steele is the Robert J. and Marion E. Oster Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution. He specializes in the study of race relations, multiculturalism, and affirmative action. He was appointed a Hoover fellow in 1994.

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About VotingFemale

I am a female voter, as my blog name implies. I vote for conservatives. I am a political opponent of Leftists, Progressives, Socialists, Marxists, and Communists.
This entry was posted in American Socialism, CNN, James Carville, MSNBC, Obama, Pelosi and tagged , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

554 Responses to Socialist Political Master Race Maintains their Ownership of the Black Race as their Weapon to Gain Power

  1. VotingFemale says:

    you… you… SADIST!!!

    hahahahahahaha

    rosehips says

    VF, I kinda luv it when you speak in caps. teehee
    (I’m feeling a bit sadistic this morning.)

    I think I should go make my nice little vid about gardens and slow food and the greening of America.

    vf said: And YES!!! I AM A CONSERVATIVE and a SOCIAL MODERATE, ROSE.

  2. VotingFemale says:

    Gee… the Socialists think they have it all sewn up.

  3. ohiobelle says:

    hello…… great article vf!

    I’ve been very busy. What have I missed??

  4. VotingFemale says:

    lol… as usual the dynamics here are fluid!

    lot of drama lately lol

  5. VotingFemale says:

    How has your weekend been going Belle?

  6. ohiobelle says:

    Hello vf…. Our neighborhood had their community garage sale that ended yesterday. Ahhh it was rough. I made more than enough to cover the new patio furniture for the deck so something good came out of it. I couldn’t believe how busy it was. Our cul de sac was a parking lot.

  7. ohiobelle says:

    I’ve been discouraged by the way the United States has handled the swine flu. Are they just trying to down play the spread of the flu?? I think they are playing political clean up at a time when they shouldn’t. Alot of people around here are getting sick.

  8. ohiobelle says:

    Okay I am going to check back later. I am going to get some work done outside so I don’t have to listen to the media talk about “the Obama date night”!! My god.. that is news breaking.

  9. samiam60 says:

    What just happened

  10. samiam60 says:

    I am really confused it is like there are two different comment pages or something. Have I been banned?

  11. VotingFemale says:

    you have not been banned Sam… silly guy!

  12. VotingFemale says:

    you probably got confused about two different posts…

    we were commenting on a different post early this morning…

    https://votingfemale.wordpress.com/2009/05/02/obamas-socialist-zombie-troll-obamattacks-on-we-the-people/

  13. rosehips says:

    shucks, I missed belle…. belle, my community had a yard sale yesterday and I interviewed some people. I am working on a vid right now and will be posting it soon. I’ve missed you gurl.

  14. rosehips says:

    I commend African American who have shed their chains and are brave enough to speak out for what they stand for regardless of their party. No one should be pressured into partisanship because of race. Absolutely no one.

  15. VotingFemale says:

    Yet African Americans are “pressured,” actually attacked racially by Socialists, who do not bow down and get back the the Socialist plantation.

  16. VotingFemale says:

    And I have seen the way people like Arlene have been treated by lefties both white and black… and that treatment is typical of the Socialist Master Race mentality.

  17. rosehips says:

    well, if there are socialists who attack african americans for their political affiliations, I think they are a very small minority with very small minds.

  18. rosehips says:

    but arlene would be a better judge of that. there is no excuse for that kind of pressure. Americans need to transcend race and choose the candidates that represent them best regardless of race.

  19. samiam60 says:

    rosehips, see I got it right, you said you were gonna get Ohiobelle to make me dinner, Remember?

  20. samiam60 says:

    Hope everyone is having a great day today, very interesting post you have here VF.

  21. samiam60 says:

    All I have to do is show up and all the ladies leave the room. Never fails,

  22. VotingFemale says:

    You are wearing White People Blinders and thus there is nothing I can do to shed light no matter what… you are too caught up in your own defensive partisanship and racial defensiveness… and too unwilling to police your own party… you too are kept down on the Socialist plantation… too afraid of being shamed… too afraid to show your god given ability to independently think. Your party is screwed up, Rose… how ever well intended you may think it is…

    I have no such loyalties to a party left of right…

    I am a member of We the People… and both parties can go screw who do not serve us… all of us… every race of us.

    rosehips says

    well, if there are socialists who attack african americans for their political affiliations, I think they are a very small minority with very small minds.

  23. VotingFemale says:

    And I, for one, would like to know Rose…

    Did you read all of this Post? from beginning to end?

    Personally I would wager you did not… because it challenges the status quo… it is independent thinking that pulls back the covers to expose that which is ugly in American Politics. Things people dont want to admit or discuss because it makes them unconfortable and threatens their long held belief systems.

    Most African Americans are still held hostage… with a Socialist tool called Enforced Victimization.

  24. VotingFemale says:

    and Rose? none of these discussions has anything to do with the fact that I love you as my friend, dear. That love is unconditional…

  25. rosehips says:

    lol vf. I will apply for that police gig once I figure out which party I belong too. I will carry a stun gun and when I see racist attacks I will zap the offenders between the legs and watch them shrivel and cower in shame. at least that’s what I’ll do to the male offenders…the women I will grab by the hair, slam them to the floor and force a retraction out of them. heehee. Racists beware!

  26. VotingFemale says:

    I need to get going for a while… I will be back on later…

    see you all laters! 🙂

  27. rosehips says:

    vf, no I didn’t read the whole post but I did read the beginning and perused the shelby steele article. I think I got the gist. my attention span is not long enough to read that much at one time. sorry.

    and I appreciate the unconditional love vf. I can be incouragible sometimes, I know. I’m glad you haven’t rejected me for some of my strong statements and reactions. 😉

  28. ohiobelle says:

    I am so done working in the yard.. anybody around?? sam, rosehips, vf… hello??

  29. ohiobelle says:

    alright then I am going to hit the showers and I will be back. I told me family that I plan on spending a little me time later.. haha

    rosehips, if you want to know about my garage sale then I must tell you that I wiped everything down with lysol after somebody touched it and I wore rubber gloves so I didn’t touch the money. lol I am too afraid to get sick right now. I did make alot of money. It paid for our new patio furniture so it was worth it. Got rid of the old to bring in new. Worked out for me. I’ll talk to you guys later.

  30. ohiobelle says:

    Well it must be a busy Sunday for everybody. It seems like we all keep checking in at different times. lol

  31. ohiobelle says:

    hello…. hello… hello… it’s blog time!! Where is everybody??

  32. ohiobelle says:

    I am going to log off for the night. I will be back in the morning. Have a nice night everybody.

  33. karmahd says:

    Boo, howdy I survived another weekend on the motorcycle. Kind of proud, it has been three years since my last wreck LOL. I sound like this is AAA…

  34. VotingFemale says:

    You still here karma?

  35. karmahd says:

    Yes but out the door for dinner whazzzz up VF

  36. VotingFemale says:

    Just a Jello to ya!

  37. VotingFemale says:

    Are you Ok? tee-hee

  38. karmahd says:

    I am A Okayyyyyyy, fine still have all my fingers and toes!!

  39. karmahd says:

    Cool off to wash my Weeiner…….Dog, be back on later

  40. rosehips says:

    wash your wiener karma? do you need help? lol.

  41. VF, great post. You know this post makes me think of many people. Yes the whole race situation is very difficult. Your lead off information is very informative and true, extremely sad, and unfortunate. It’s like if he keeps telling people they can’t do anything for themselves and that he/the government are the only ones that can help them. NOW THEY BELIEVE it and have nearly completely stopped doing anything to help themselves. It is a shame. I thought the girl on your TEA Party video “Katrina” was a perfect example of Choosing another path.

    I think a sad reality to all of this is a fact that I cannot really know what this must really be like. I can “think” I can imagine but do I really “know” what it would be like? No.

    Now, Star Parker is one conservative black girl that I respect and admire greatly.

    I posted a lot of her stuff on ireports hoping people might see, read and realize there was real hope, hope in some one and something real. Star Parker came up hard and make it big. She greatly opposed to the jack Obama was shoveling the minority groups.

    I think her site is
    http://www.urbancure.org

  42. samiam60 says:

    Just for giggles I went back in time to Oldschools post about all the banned ireporters that happened in a span of a few days. I went through all 39 pages and LOL, I could not stop laughing at how many of the people that commented on the ireport have been banned since then. It was such a great ireport and CNN did not budge on amnesty for N O B O D Y. After reading all of that I have to conclude that this is now all just an Ego thing for David. I would like to find away to reconnect with MartinT, vog, mech125, and a few others in a olive branch sorta way and have a reunion of sorts and then perhaps do a post together as one voice.

  43. samiam60 says:

    Keep in mind these folks pretty much hate me but I thought that would just make it all the better. If we could combine and aggree to disagree we could put out one last hurah. I know Indy609 reads this post. Make it happen my atheist friend.

  44. VotingFemale says:

    I have done several iReports on Star Parker… a gusty woman whom I admire.

    And if you read carefully Shelby’s essay… he pointed out to interlocking things that conspire against conservative African Americans…

    I shall quote him…

    Whenever my talk was finished, though sometimes before, a virtual militia of angry black students would rush to the microphones and begin to scream. At first I thought of them as Mau Maus but decided this was unfair to the real Mau Maus, who, though ruthless terrorists, had helped bring independence to Kenya in the 1950s. My confronters were not freedom fighters; they were Carrie Nation–like enforcers, racial bluenoses who lived in terror of certain words. Repression was their game, not liberation, and they said as much. “You can’t say that in front of the white man.” “Your words will be used against us.” “Why did you write this book?” “You should only print that in a black magazine.” Their outrage brought to light an ironic and unnoticed transformation in the nature of black American anger from the sixties to the nineties: a shift in focus from protest to suppression, from blowing the lid off to tightening it down. And, short of terrorism, shame is the best instrument of repression.

    Of course, most black students did not behave in this way. But the very decency of the majority, black and white, often made the shaming of the minority more effective. So I learned what it was like to stand before a crowd in which a coterie of one’s enemies had the license to shame, while a mixture of decorum and fear silenced the decent people who might have come to one’s aid. I was as vulnerable to the decency as to the shaming since together they amounted to shame. And it is never fun to be called “an opportunist,” “a house slave,” and so on while university presidents sit in the front row and avert their eyes. But this really is the point: The goal of shaming was never to win an argument with me; it was to make a display of shame that would make others afraid for themselves, that would cause eyes to avert. I was more the vehicle than the object, and what I did was almost irrelevant. Shame’s victory was in the averted eyes, the cowering of decency. -Shelby Steele

    warrantonegirl says

    VF, great post. You know this post makes me think of many people. Yes the whole race situation is very difficult. Your lead off information is very informative and true, extremely sad, and unfortunate. It’s like if he keeps telling people they can’t do anything for themselves and that he/the government are the only ones that can help them. NOW THEY BELIEVE it and have nearly completely stopped doing anything to help themselves. It is a shame. I thought the girl on your TEA Party video “Katrina” was a perfect example of Choosing another path.

    I think a sad reality to all of this is a fact that I cannot really know what this must really be like. I can “think” I can imagine but do I really “know” what it would be like? No.

    Now, Star Parker is one conservative black girl that I respect and admire greatly.

    I posted a lot of her stuff on ireports hoping people might see, read and realize there was real hope, hope in some one and something real. Star Parker came up hard and make it big. She greatly opposed to the jack Obama was shoveling the minority groups.

    I think her site is
    http://www.urbancure.org

  45. karmahd says:

    There is a price to be paid even for fellow-traveling with a racial identity as politicized and demanding as today’s black identity. This identity wants to take over a greater proportion of the self than other racial identities do. It wants to have its collective truth-its defining ideas of grievance and protest-become personal truth…. These are the identity pressures that Barack Obama lives within. He is vulnerable to them because he has hungered for a transparent black identity much of his life. He needs to ‘be black.’ And this hunger — no matter how understandable it may be — means that he is not in a position to reject the political liberalism inherent in his racial identity. For Obama liberalism is blackness. More from Shelby Steele

  46. karmahd says:

    Wow, this guy is dead on!!!

    Barack Obama’s victory was an ideological defeat for modern conservatism and a devastating blow to the Republican Party. It wasn’t just a case of one centrist candidate slipping past another centrist candidate at the finish line. This defeat — helped along by a sinking economy — was on the level of ideas. It points to nothing less than a new and still unfolding Obama “progressivism” in which Keynes replaces Friedman and “trickle-down” gives way to “bottom-up.”

  47. karmahd says:

    Hey I am sorry but this man speaks the closest thing to truth I have seen!!

    Of course the bad economy has checked some of Mr. Obama’s progressive ambitions. He will live with the Bush tax cuts for the time being, and he may include some business tax cuts in his stimulus package. But he clearly wants a more redistributive and socially activist government. And he will be helped in this by two unique sources of authority: the urgency of our economic troubles and his moral authority as the first black president. Again, I am not hopeful for him here, and I despair at seeing the moral capital of my race put to these ends.

  48. rosehips says:

    karma, the moral capital of your race? put to an end? can you explain this. pretend I am an 8th grader….

  49. karmahd says:

    No I cant they are not my words, and Mr. Steele who did write these words took a lot of heat for using those words. What I found interesting is that what he is saying is basically what I have been thinking as to the redistributive and socially activist government. I started to read about this guy when I saw VF post the article above. He is a fellow at the Hoover Institute and appears by all rights to be the foremost expert on race and race relations, and like Obama his is of mixed race.

  50. karmahd says:

    Just a pretty cogent voice that has no fear in saying what others might get accused as a racist, refreshing!

  51. karmahd says:

    Lastly before I tuck my self in, my personal thoughts on color, race or any other division, it is only as great as the proponent expressing the divide, in other words, race is used all too often to either prove a point, or diffuse a point. It is skin color to me nothing more, and it never was an issue, but we seem as a nation to fear color??? My dog is black, my dog is white, what is the point?

  52. karmahd says:

    Moral authority (or suasion) is like the old advertisement: “When E.F. Hutton talks, people listen.” It is the power to influence public opinion without the use of force. The phrase thus contains an implicit contrast with political or legal authority, which are coercive.

  53. karmahd says:

    Moral Authority: It may be referred to as a “higher law”, involving right reason, which calls a person to the performance of their duties and restrains them from doing wrong.

  54. karmahd says:

    suasion: the act of persuading (or attempting to persuade); communication intended to induce belief

  55. arlenearmy says:

    Rose said:
    “but arlene would be a better judge of that. there is no excuse for that kind of pressure. Americans need to transcend race and choose the candidates that represent them best regardless of race.”

    My response:
    White folks are also now better able to judge this because white socialist & liberals are becoming racist to other whites. How many times have we heard on the news of a white person labeling other whites a racist … or accuse another white person as a racist with a mental defect such as “Stockholm” syndrome. Look what happened to Lisa who was called a slaver. And yes, I’ve seen comment of Lette playing the race card on white folks. DCconserviti has been called a racist all the time. Even VF, Bingster & M2. The list is long.

    Whites folks are turning into racist on themselves. This is a new kind of racism that Obama has created.

  56. arlenearmy says:

    Some of you may laugh at this, but there’s a “planet of the apes” twist to what is unfolding. I challenge each and everyone of you to watch the entire series.

  57. rosehips says:

    argghhh. i just responded to your arlene, and I got an error message. Now I have to rewrite my comment.

    I appreciate your comments arlene. that’s a big challenge. how many movies are in the series?

    I have only seen the original “Planent of the Apes” It was exciting especially because one of the ape actors,James Daly, lived in my home town. He also played a doctor on tv. His son is the actor, Tim Daly. I think he was/is on “West Wing” or some show like that. My sister knew him in jr. high and even got her “first kiss” from him. Just a little side ancedote.

    Planet of the Apes was a very thought provoking movie. I especially was struck by the end.

    I hope you mom is doing well, Arlene. Are you still in Houston?

  58. rosehips says:

    and karma, thanks for the clarification about moral authority.

    my son is doing his senior project on propaganda. It is really interesting stuff. The “granddaddy” of propaganda was a guy named Bernays who was sigmund freud’s nephew. It’s scary how well mass persuasion can work when it is calculated.

  59. rosehips says:

    vf, where are you????
    anybody home?

  60. rosehips says:

    hmmm…. intersting article indy.

    i gotta say politics seems to be getting uglier all the time. it’s probably no different than it always was, but we have so much more access to the dirt in the blogosphere.
    I don’t really understand the finance world.
    It’s gotta be hard to lose so much money from investments that used to be considered so low risk. But, if you play, you gotta be willing to pay. I didn’t think that creditors got to negotiate the returns they got paid. They should be happy with 29%, imo. I thought when a company went bankrupt they didn’t have to pay any of their loans back. like I said, I don’t know finance.

  61. karmahd says:

    Hey everyone who might be here, Rose Arlene Indy Sam, VF if you are around

  62. rosehips says:

    hey karma… kinda quiet here this morning. no vf yet…

  63. karmahd says:

    Yeah, hey what questions was Arlene answering of yours??

  64. billalmighty says:

    hi everyone

  65. karmahd says:

    Bill long time no see

  66. samiam60 says:

    Good morning all, its a wonderful day in the neighborhood, will you be my friend today?

  67. billalmighty says:

    hey karma = it’s been a few days for sure…catching up on this post and comments. glad you had a good ride over the weekend. i’m jealous!

  68. karmahd says:

    LOL yes Mr. Samiers

  69. karmahd says:

    Yeah it was very nice, hot but tolerable, soon it will be too hot to ride so I am taking advantage of the weather

  70. rosehips says:

    hey bill. good to have you back!
    hi sam

  71. samiam60 says:

    I think I am going to jogg over to reports and read about some flower gardens for awhile

  72. rosehips says:

    karma, it was vf’s and my discussion yesterday about socialist’s racism.

  73. karmahd says:

    OK, could not pull it together

  74. rosehips says:

    sam, lol. did you see my flower garden post yesterday? lol.

    I think my interview post from the community yard sale was on tv or sumpthin. On the ireport page sidebar, it says “used in cnn news coverage” Not sure if that means it was on tv or not.

  75. billalmighty says:

    hi rose and sam

  76. rosehips says:

    well, I need to go figure out what to post on ireports today. I just noticed I am back on the superstar grid, after being knocked way back since coming to wordpress. I am on the last position on the grid, so I gotta get some more posts in. I don’t get how it works. I still post and sometimes get lots of views, but I comment way less than I used to and that’s the only difference. So I guess the number of comments one makes makes a difference? Funny how I don’t recognize half the people on the grid. Not that it really matters anyway. It’s all just to feed the ego. like we need that. lol.

  77. VotingFemale says:

    Slow start today…

    I Strongly suggest to everyone who visits this blog… to read every word Shelby Steel wrote in his essay above.

    It reveals the nature of the scam being perpetrated by the Socialists to dominate forever the population of this country.

    And I, for one, and HAVE NOT and AM NOT going to be “shamed” into compliance by the Socialists using the Black Race as a Club on both the Black Race and the White Race for Political Gain.

    The Obama Socialists Trolls can go screw.

    I have to scoot for a few hours… some of my girlfriends and I are getting together to play golf but will be back later today.

    Please read ALL of Shelby Steele’s Essay.

    And thank you Arlene for speaking up dear.

    laters!

  78. samiam60 says:

    Well I am back and it was no rosegarden over there. I have not been there lately and the numbers on most commented are like so low, what are they thinking. RoseHIPS, see I got it right again, I don’t really know anyone over there anymore.

  79. rosehips says:

    vf, I will read the article and have fun with your golf game!
    sam, I know whatcha mean. it’s like we’ve been invaded by aliens at ireports. lol.
    hey, i miss you calling me rosechips. it made me feel like I was your “pet”. heehee.

  80. samiam60 says:

    Awhhh, thanks RoseChips it ALWAYS fun talkin to you.

  81. karmahd says:

    Four!!!!!! VF you would not want me playing behind you LOL….

  82. rosehips says:

    lol karma. not a great golfer, eh?
    what does “four” mean anyway? I always thought it was “fore” but didn’t know what that meant either.

  83. samiam60 says:

    It means duck a ball is coming your way.

  84. billalmighty says:

    I read the entire post, and have researched steele a bit.

    to me, this post furthers all stereotypes.

    steele is a “black conservative” and an activist…..not an impartial expert on racism.

    he describes a series of incidents that had a negative affect on him personally, and as a result, gives one “conservative black ” person’s perspective on what it means to be black and conservative, and who will be against you because of it.

    the article is filled with racist assumptions….and therefore is just as suspect as the subject matter or any of the actors he talks about.

    the fact that he has studied racism for a long time does not make his conclusions or opinions more or less correct, as he at some point has had a “victim” mentality himself to have been able to author the article.

    steele nor the conservatives seem to give african americans enough credit to have keen perception and reasoning abilities for themselves.

    the people who are the real subject of this article seem to be obama and socialist dems master race takeover conspiracy members…..again

    and more conservative victims….only black ones this time

    i/m/o

    hi VF!

  85. karmahd says:

    Rose you turd stop correcting my incorrect use of words!!! LOL, actually I am a very good golfer, I used to hold a 4 handicap, but now alas no time nor money to play!!!

  86. karmahd says:

    Wow Bill, after review of Steele’s writings I for one felt that he was more than qualified to speak to racism. Interesting take on this post, and I ask what has ever been written that was not done so to convince or sell a point? That is the goal of any writer to paint there experience, I found his comments refreshing and very direct, my goal is to read all the propaganda written by the pundits and sift it through my filter and glean from those article what is the highest probability of a well founded opinion. In regard to Steele’s writings I feel comfortable that his motives are as close to reality as most come.

  87. billalmighty says:

    i’m waiting until retirement for golf. i figure the clothes will actually look good to me by then

  88. billalmighty says:

    karma –

    in a sense, it’s an article about victimization written by a victim.

  89. karmahd says:

    who better to write it then??

  90. billalmighty says:

    and i’m not trying to say he’s not a qualified expert…

    he’s an expert at HIS point of view, though

  91. billalmighty says:

    well, again it’s his perception….not based in actual science or anything. it would be hard to say who is “qualified” to say what he said. it’s his expert opinion

  92. billalmighty says:

    the underlying theme…that african americans, and most americans in general, are being fooled and led around by the master wizard of bait and switch mind control, obama and his master brainwashers.

    it gets old

  93. karmahd says:

    I am thinking much more global and do not honor Obama with such distinction! We as a species are led by the thoughts of proposed “experts” in fact most of the arguments seen as to politics, abortion, religion are rarely formed by in depth study and independent thought. It is much simpler to attach one’s self to others opinions and then follow the path and expand.

    In essence everything is just an opinion, and if you look to validate via science you fall into a very narrow reductionist school of thought. 99% of the worlds population are sheep ripe to be led by any sheppard due to it is much more easy to accept anothers personal truth than develop you own.

  94. rosehips says:

    I have to admit that I read steele’s article with a critical eye, but his points are valid, although self-serving, and of course there will always be victims and victimization and those who will exploit victims to further their agendas. And I think his points about victimization of african americans are good ones.
    I found his anecdote about the journalist and her big white lincoln quite interesting. When I studied sociology in h.s. and college I was intrigued with the “theories” of “conspicuous consumption” of blacks mostly in the inner cities. Any discussion around race is usually skewed by the delicate nature of the issues around it. When so many wear kid gloves and walk on tip toes, we can never really know what people really think. This Steele guy is brave to speak out and it does seem unfair how black conservatives are treated. I know Arlene has been a target of much disdain.

    I found it interesting that he talks of being seen as a dissenter. (He did mention it was only a small minority who verbally criticize him.) But he didn’t mention how he is treated by white conservatives in his party. There must be a strange, and I imagine uncomfortable, dynamic within the party about race. I’m sure there is equal, or probably more, tip-toeing around the conservative’s cocktail parties.

    I found both bill and karma to have some excellent points with different perspectives.

    Is Shelby Steele related to Michael?

  95. billalmighty says:

    I think you are right on the money about the power of suggestion…and the sheep mentality. sarah palin’s popularity is proof of that.

    does that mean when conservatives won the white house and congress that we all became right-wing zombies?

    this argument always depends on who wins

    if you’re for the winner, then americans are wise and “have spoken” with their vote

    if you’re against, then americans are lost sheep who can’t think for themselves

    i’m not looking to validate anything with science…only made that reference to distinguish steele’s article as his opinion based on his personal experiences

  96. billalmighty says:

    it’s nearly impossible to talk about racism without making racist assumptions

  97. rosehips says:

    racist assumptions or racial assumptions?
    regardless, I agree.

  98. billalmighty says:

    karma-I don’t disagree with all of what steele is saying. i’m certainly in no position to judge him…but the idea that this post represents the way all black conservatives feel, is suspect i/m/o

    the idea that obama is leading a conspiracy to enslave and socialize america is awfully extreme for some moderate conservatives to be asserting

  99. billalmighty says:

    rose…racist assumptions

    ideas or thoughts based on one’s own perception of members of races different than their own.

  100. karmahd says:

    Bill well put and thus the merry go round of stagnation of our species, the dicotomy of good verses evil as seen today is just an exposition of the classic Greek tragety. This is where in my opinion it’s time to jump off and be the casual observer. The system is a machine and due to the apathy of its working parts it continues to run without reason , cause or causality. Just passive acceptance, very depressing if you accept that truth.

  101. karmahd says:

    I forgot to mention in my last statement that we all get caught up in the daily spin and fail to see the big picture. IMO the current administration is leading it’s efforts toward a more social government controlled system, also the last party in power was just as much a “big brother” in that it said trust us we will protect you, and don’t worry if we watch your every move and take some liberty in the process.

    This is again in my opinion why we are so divided, the differences are so grand the swing so big, people are left with there heads spinning. We have shifted from one form of oppression to another!

  102. billalmighty says:

    you know, karma…i’ve been watching that machine, and even participating in it at times for quite a few years….i’ve come to the same conclusion as you. i have my opinions and hopes for our future, but i’m a realist and know that our government will always be controlled by money and power. it’s the nature of the beast. there’s no way to stop it or change it. we all live by what about 20 people decide in board rooms without cameras. i’m more for state and local government nowadays….it’s what really impacts my daily life.

  103. karmahd says:

    Bingo!!! Leave us alone, use our share of the maitainence of the country to keep the roads open, and put out the fires, and let us live!! Now that is reductionist!!!

  104. karmahd says:

    If it were only so simple!!!

  105. karmahd says:

    Great discussion, gotta run and do some stuff, lucky me I got the day off without pay!!

  106. billalmighty says:

    on the obama socialist argument –

    ok, the argument can be made that we are behaving like socialist countries do….govt owned business, programs, healthcare, etc.

    another argument is that the govt is simply doing what they have been advised by financial experts….inject money into saving large companies….and that after recovery, they plan to get back out of the private sector. the republicans will have control of washington again eventually, and can change anything they think needs fixing. i don’t see it as the huge conspiracy that it’s being portrayed as.

    the same people who ranted about how obama was way too inexperienced to be in politics during the campaign are now claiming he is this cunning, brilliant mastermind of the greatest brainwashing and hostile takeover of a country in history. is that the conservative’s priority? trashing obama for four years? they better get busy doing some good shit or there will be no reason to vote for them next time

    i/m/o 😉

  107. billalmighty says:

    yeppers…good chat. have a good one

  108. rosehips says:

    I am glad to see obama is cracking down on overseas investing. it’s about time. I wonder how many members of congress are evading taxes by having tax havens overseas.

  109. billalmighty says:

    rose –

    to me, there is nothing more un-american than a citizen living in our country, enjoying it’s benefits, making money and then investing it overseas because of some tax laws or loophole….that guy should be deported

    same with any huge amercian companies or corporations who have built their fortunes on the backs of amercian workers and filled their pockets with american customer’s money…only to move overseas because they had their taxes raised or found cheaper labor. Those companies should be shut down and not allowed to do business of any king in the US anymore.

    financial profit has got to stop being the number one priority in every situation

  110. ohiobelle says:

    Good afternoon all!

  111. ohiobelle says:

    rosehips wrote: I wonder how many members of congress are evading taxes by having tax havens overseas?

    Do you honestly believe this will change anything?? Our government will still continue to be corrupt no matter what Obama says.

  112. billalmighty says:

    hi belle-

    rose- if they have it and haven’t disclosed it, then they are criminals and nothing will change for them either way

    it’s still a great step in the right direction i/m/o

  113. ohiobelle says:

    Hi Bill!

    Actually Obama is going to hurt companies by this tax deal. It could kill the deal with Fiat.. am I wrong??

  114. ohiobelle says:

    I believe I am right. Obama made the deal happen with Fiat.. Correct? Our CEO of the United States is killing business. Chrysler will have to pay taxes overseas and here.

  115. samiam60 says:

    Hi OhioBelle, Bill, How is everyone today?

  116. ohiobelle says:

    Hey Sam! I am just sitting here wondering if we elected a CEO of the United States or a President of the United States???? His new tax deal is bad for business.

  117. billalmighty says:

    well, that’s one way to see it.

    another way is that a huge corporate loophole that should never have been open will now be closed. cheating our govt out of billions, while holding their hands out for a bailout

  118. billalmighty says:

    big business is against it because they only care about money…not america

  119. ohiobelle says:

    Bill, I see what you’re saying but if Obama had a big problem with the corporate loophole then why did he push the deal with Fiat?? Chrysler will have to pay twice the amount of taxes under his new policy. How does that help a struggling company? Maybe he wanted it that way? Maybe he’ll start encouraging companies to go overseas so he can get tax money that he wouldn’t normally have gotten?? Something is fishy with this.

  120. billalmighty says:

    conservatives are going to be against it because obama came up with it….that’s a given

    if you are really for helping small business and main street in america….then this is good

    if you’re for anything against obama and the dems…it’s very bad, of course

  121. ohiobelle says:

    Bill wrote: if you are really for helping small business and main street in america….then this is good

    How is this good?? I thought it was good that Fiat was merging with Chrysler until I heard his new tax policy. I see Chrysler leaving the United States all together.. how is that good for us?

  122. billalmighty says:

    i think obama was encouraging the fiat deal because it was a private sector solution to saving the company…i don’t know of any behind the scenes conspiracies

  123. billalmighty says:

    hmmm….belle, why wouldn’t we want chrysler to pay taxes on ALL of their business as an american company?

  124. ohiobelle says:

    Forget outsourcing.. Companies might just leave the states all together. I would if I were them. Would you?

  125. samiam60 says:

    Most Companies moved overseas to avoid US taxes and so maybe this is a punishment for them or maybe Obama has something else up his sleeve??? I really don’t know what to make of it.

  126. billalmighty says:

    if chrysler was made in america, then they should spend their money here and not complain….or move overseas and good luck selling chryslers to the europeans and chinese

  127. ohiobelle says:

    Bill wrote: why wouldn’t we want chrysler to pay taxes on ALL of their business as an american company?

    I don’t think that is what Barack is saying. I believe he is saying that he wants Chrysler to pay us the taxes for cars sold overseas.. Why would they do that? The cars weren’t sold here and they are paying taxes on the cars sold here. Does that make sense?

  128. billalmighty says:

    any company who built their fortune here then leaves over taxes or cheaper labor…is a traitor. they should be kicked out of the country and banned from doing business here.

  129. ohiobelle says:

    Bill wrote: if chrysler was made in america, then they should spend their money here and not complain

    I agree but the anointed one said they have to merge with Fiat.. He set this deal up. Chrysler didn’t want this.

  130. billalmighty says:

    belle….that’s tax evasion. should it be ok for chrysler?

  131. ohiobelle says:

    bill wrote: any company who built their fortune here then leaves over taxes or cheaper labor…is a traitor. they should be kicked out of the country and banned from doing business here.

    This is the problem with socialism. Our government should not mess with companies. In the end, we will be the ones paying the price. Just wait and see.

  132. billalmighty says:

    chrysler doesn’t get to pick where their donations come from, unfortunately…they are about to go bankrupt

    and i’m pretty sure obama himself isn’t a car dealer and didn’t broker the deal personally

  133. ohiobelle says:

    Bill wrote: belle….that’s tax evasion. should it be ok for chrysler?

    How is it tax evasion? They are not selling or manufacturing the cars here.

  134. ohiobelle says:

    Bill, I am really trying to see your point of view but there are so many questions. Obama may not have written the deal with Fiat but he encouraged it. FDR didn’t write the New Deal but he signed it… lol make sense?

  135. billalmighty says:

    they are an american company purposely using a loophole to screw us out of billions in tax dollars. you’re defending the wrong guys i/m/o

  136. ohiobelle says:

    Sam wrote: Most Companies moved overseas to avoid US taxes and so maybe this is a punishment for them or maybe Obama has something else up his sleeve??? I really don’t know what to make of it.

    I think he’s got something up his sleeve. In order for him to just pull $210 billion out of his hind end.. he’s got something planned. Where in the chevy keyho did they come up with that number??? C’mon..

  137. ohiobelle says:

    Bill wrote: they are an american company purposely using a loophole to screw us out of billions in tax dollars. you’re defending the wrong guys i/m/o

    How?? If the cars are not manf or sold here then how would we be getting screwed?? Fiat is keeping Chryslers doors open in the United States and Chrysler is paying taxes to our government for all the cars manf and sold here. How am I defending the wrong guys??

  138. ohiobelle says:

    Bill, I swear I would change my mind if you could give me 1 valid reason.

  139. billalmighty says:

    i’m not sure I’m following you, belle

    do you think companies should only have to pay taxes on what they make and sell in the US?

    even if they are a US company?

    if so, do foreign companies get to manufacture and sell in the US tax free?

  140. billalmighty says:

    i’m not sure what you’re for

  141. billalmighty says:

    it seems that you are advocating the exact thing that is sending all of our jobs overseas

  142. ohiobelle says:

    Bill asked do you think companies should only have to pay taxes on what they make and sell in the US?

    Yes.

  143. billalmighty says:

    well, that’s why plants get close here and jobs get shipped overseas

  144. ohiobelle says:

    Bill wrote: it seems that you are advocating the exact thing that is sending all of our jobs overseas

    Bill, our government is sending jobs overseas.. I fear companies might as well just move overseas instead of outsourcing. I think this might back fire just as the recession is near an end. Does that make sense? Companies don’t have to stay in the United States…

  145. ohiobelle says:

    I fear Obama is forcing them to choose and it will back fire… Can you see that?

  146. ohiobelle says:

    Again, Obama may not have written the deal with Fiat but he encouraged it. FDR didn’t write the New Deal but he signed it

  147. karmahd says:

    Just on for a minute, but this cost (taxes) will be, One borne by the American consumer, Two, go to the government which will then spend it on programs and policies out of our control. The beast is hungry since it has been eating up so much of our tax dollars and needs a new source of food.

    PS. labor is the deciding factor in profitability of a company, if there are “cheaper” sources of labor I say utilize it, thus pass the overall savings to the consumer.

  148. ohiobelle says:

    Okay in a perfect world no company would be aloud to outsource jobs.. yes? If companies are going to pay double taxes then why would they stay in the United States?? They wouldn’t. If Obama wanted domestic only then he would’ve noted that in the spending bill but he didn’t. There is no reason for companies to stay here.

  149. ohiobelle says:

    OMG.. allowed! Sry.

    Hi Karma.

  150. billalmighty says:

    not sure we both have the same idea of what we are talking about here, belle

    i don’t really think you mean what it sounds like you’re saying, but i’ll chalk it up to you not trusting obama or the current administration

  151. ohiobelle says:

    Karma wrote: The beast is hungry since it has been eating up so much of our tax dollars and needs a new source of food.

    Well said!!

  152. karmahd says:

    Is it not ironic to see Little Timmy Geithner talking about closing loopholes in taxes???

  153. ohiobelle says:

    Bill wrote: i don’t really think you mean what it sounds like you’re saying, but i’ll chalk it up to you not trusting obama or the current administration

    Maybe you and I will agree to disagree and we’ll wait and see… Its not Obama I have a problem with; it’s our government.

  154. billalmighty says:

    there is nothing more un-american than a company building itself from the ground up on the backs of american workers and american customers…and then shipping out because they got a tax hike or found cheaper labor. they have to take responsiblity for their own actions. kick them out!

  155. karmahd says:

    Bill I for one will say I do not trust the Obama administration! I look at the actions of the players and the implementation of its processes and I strongly disagree with Obama and his team, that is not personal it is pragmatic

  156. ohiobelle says:

    Karma wrote: Is it not ironic to see Little Timmy Geithner talking about closing loopholes in taxes???

    hahahahahah…. Little Timmy and Paulson are the reason Wall Street crashed!! He is doing what Japan did about 18 years ago.. How is that change?? How long has Japan been in a recession?? 18 years.

  157. ohiobelle says:

    Bill wrote: there is nothing more un-american than a company building itself from the ground up on the backs of american workers and american customers…and then shipping out because they got a tax hike or found cheaper labor. they have to take responsiblity for their own actions. kick them out!

    We won’t have to kick them out… they’ll leave america on their own.. just wait and see.

  158. karmahd says:

    Bill your statement would suggest you are a believer in Labor Unions. It is my experience that labor unions do not create excellence, but the exact opposite, lazieness and lack of innovation. The business model has changed on the labor front and that change took place in the 60’s?? This is nothing new, and has been going on since Kennedy, (outsourcing of labor)

  159. billalmighty says:

    that’s true in some cases, i’m sure karma.

    labor unions were necessary at one time.

    now they are obsolete, like the electoral college and pontiac cars 🙂

  160. ohiobelle says:

    Basically Obama is saying he wants no company to be able to profit in america. Why would any company put up with that? He’s saying if you have too much money then he wants it so he can continue with his spending spree. I swear this will back fire.

  161. m2elena says:

    That’s right Karma, the only entities who do not cut back, or make concessions are 1) The government and 2) The UAW. Isn’t that ironic? The reason that American auto has failed is mostly due to UAW, and they have not sacrificed anything. In fact, we are going to pick up the tab for their lifetime retirement/health commitments.

    A loophole isn’t a magical candy for corporate abuse, it is a law that needs to be revised. Who makes the laws to begin with?

    Back to work-o.

  162. ohiobelle says:

    Great big Obama back draft…

  163. ohiobelle says:

    Hello M2!! It’s been too long. How are you doing?

  164. billalmighty says:

    ok, then belle….you are supporting companies who are trying to manipulate and circumvent your government. i gave you several opportunities to back out of it. you are supporting the very mentality that makes small business close up, and decreases the value of american goods and workers.

    stop blaming the govt for your opinion

  165. karmahd says:

    And before I go back to cleaning my house, government is totally inept at running a profitable business! I for one cannot name one branch of government that can come in under budget, on time, and offer bang for the buck!! Free enterprise on the other hand has to provide those basic attributes or they well not be in business. The American government is the largest labor union in the world, look a the inefficiency by simply reviewing what they plan to spend over the next year?

  166. ohiobelle says:

    Bill wrote: ok, then belle….you are supporting companies who are trying to manipulate and circumvent your government. i gave you several opportunities to back out of it. you are supporting the very mentality that makes small business close up, and decreases the value of american goods and workers.

    stop blaming the govt for your opinion

    Oh please! lol Companies should be able to profit. The anointed one is clearly saying if you are making too much money then he wants a piece of it. How is the justified?? It’s not.

  167. ohiobelle says:

    Bill, this is failed socialism. All the bailouts failed and now they are going to give Citigroup $10 billion dollars and they will fail as well. Government should never be allowed to get involved in business. Look at Fannie and Freddie.. That is my point.

  168. karmahd says:

    Bill I have owned several small businesses and have profited from that opportunity, and my second largest cost to produce after labor was income tax?? This is not blame, it is the realization of a flawed economic model that has gone on too long, way before Obama, but he is piling on and further hindering the ability to be a business owner by driving up the costs of goods via this inflationalry policy.

  169. billalmighty says:

    i think there’s substantial confusion and lots of partisanship starting to flow about this issue

  170. karmahd says:

    inflationary, and fiscal policy sorry for the omission

  171. karmahd says:

    I have no party Bill so my comments are not partisan

  172. billalmighty says:

    not directed at you, karma

    this thing obama is doing is good for our country….it’s the kind of thing our granparents would say is just the right thing to do.

    when being against obama and the dems outweighs any attempt to consider the issue itself, well….

    ugh

  173. karmahd says:

    I would rather slug it out in free enterprise than to be limited by a structured governmental system and be offered “my fair share”

  174. ohiobelle says:

    Bill wrote: i think there’s substantial confusion and lots of partisanship starting to flow about this issue

    I respect whatever it is you believe. I am only telling you how I feel. Barack has bigger issues on the table. I honestly believe Taliban has control of Pakistan and the nukes. I think people should start paying attention to that issue.

  175. karmahd says:

    OK back to house work, a womans work is never done LOL

  176. karmahd says:

    LOL had to throw this in!!

    being or acting in accordance with the principles of government analyzed in
    Machiavelli’s The Prince, in which political expediency is placed above morality and the use of craft and deceit to maintain the authority and carry out the policies of a ruler is described.
    3. characterized by subtle or unscrupulous cunning, deception, expediency, or dishonesty: He resorted to Machiavellian tactics in order to get ahead.

  177. ohiobelle says:

    Bill wrote: not directed at you, karma

    this thing obama is doing is good for our country….it’s the kind of thing our granparents would say is just the right thing to do.

    okay then it was directed at me… so be it. I can agree to disagree without any problems. I am only saying if it was good for our country then why didn’t Obama put domestic only in the spending bill?? I think he was afraid it would force companies to leave america.. This COULD have the same effect.

  178. ohiobelle says:

    I will have to log off for a while. Bye Bye

  179. rosehips says:

    holy crap…I am gone for just a few minutes and look at all the comments! too many to read. but hi belle!
    belle, c’mon. why should companies benefit from going overseas? I lost my job to outsourcing. there should be some disincentive to that.
    It was actually Microsoft that issued a directive to only contract with companies that have a worldwide workforce. In some cases I can see companies paying taxes in the country they are located especially if they are manufacturing products that stay in the country they are located in. I don’t know enough about the issue, but I do think that loopholes should be closed if they don’t have a good purpose.

  180. rosehips says:

    belle, i just got here,

  181. ohiobelle says:

    I copied this from my comment above.

    Basically Obama is saying he wants no company to be able to profit in america. Why would any company put up with that? He’s saying if you have too much money then he wants it so he can continue with his spending spree. I swear this will back fire.

  182. ohiobelle says:

    Hey rosehips!! It’s been too long. I am against outsourcing as much as you but to force a company to pay double the taxes may force companies to shut their door. For example, why would Chrysler stay in the United States if they are going to pay taxes overseas and here? I wouldn’t blame them if they left. I think something has to be done to stop the outsourcing but this was the wrong approach. What do you think?

  183. Indycoltsfan says:

    Hello everyone, I see we have a lively debate going on here.

  184. ohiobelle says:

    Hello Indy. Just talking about the CEO of the United States of America.. hahaha

  185. karmahd says:

    Rose I would suggest you take the time to read all the comments above. Outsourcing sucks but it is a way of business and it is rampant due to the inequities in labor costs and the overhead in cost to produce for American companies, every nation utilizes this business model. By taxing for overseas business you are now increasing the price of goods on a global scale, this coupled with inflation is a death knoll, and anyone who has taken Econ 101 is cognizant of that fact. The global economy is in a tail spin and Obama implements this?? The reason being is to SUPPORT THE LABOR UNIONS, one of his main benificiaries. Plain and simple, it is as transparent as my hippy muslin tie dye shirt of the 70’s!!!!

    ‘The Prince’ that discusses ways in which the rulers of a nation state can gain and control power. Although The Prince contains some keen and practical insights into human behavior, it also displays a pessimistic view of human nature and condones opportunistic and unethical ways of manipulating people. One of its suggestions reads, “Whoever desires to found a state and give it laws, must start with assuming that all men are bad and ever ready to display their vicious nature.”

  186. billalmighty says:

    i/m/o

    i’m much more concerned about the possiblity of my grandaughter having to move to another country to find a decent job because we let our american industry have us by the balls and won’t make them pay taxes to be able to do business here.

    if chrysler was banned from doing business in america if they moved overseas, i bet you they would pay the extra taxes and stay.

    that’s what is trying to be accomplished with this proposal.

    are you an american or not?

    conservatives bitch about all the democrats that obama tried to appoint to his cabinet who didn’t pay all their taxes, yet defend companies who refuse to under the threat of leaving the country…..but they still want to be able to sell goods here and make money.

    again, there’s some partisan crap and major misunderstandings about this issue and what it even means, so i’m gonna wait on another topic.

    thanks for the good debate everyone

  187. ohiobelle says:

    Wow Karma, well said!!

  188. billalmighty says:

    yes, very well said karma

  189. billalmighty says:

    even though i disagree with it 😉

  190. ohiobelle says:

    Bill wrote: conservatives bitch about all the democrats that obama tried to appoint to his cabinet who didn’t pay all their taxes, yet defend companies who refuse to under the threat of leaving the country…..but they still want to be able to sell goods here and make money.

    Bill, I’d bitch if it were the republicans that didn’t pay their taxes. The very government that passed all these spending bills and budget proposals SHOULD be paying what they are passing. It seems like you are the only one making this about Obama or democrats and republicans. I am against big government regardless if it is democrats or republicans.

  191. ohiobelle says:

    With that being said.. thank you all for the debate. I am going to have to get some stuff done around here. I’ll be back soon.

  192. billalmighty says:

    belle…my only reply that it’s me being partisan is SCROLL and re-read

    and thx for the good debate, too!

  193. ohiobelle says:

    Bill, it was a good debate regardless if we agree with one another. I honestly like a healthy debate. Thank you for that.

  194. rosehips says:

    karma, I understand why it’s done. But are the companies really paying double? I don’t understand what actually is taxed. Is it profits? income? products?
    I still think that it shouldn’t be so easy to pack up or contract offshore. I really don’t think it shouldn’t be allowed, but how do we solve the problem? I think labor unions jack up costs to the consumer but so does out of control profit taking. I don’t support labor getting so many concessions that it brings compaies to its knees. that defeats the purpose of protecting jobs.

  195. rosehips says:

    let me rephrase. I am not opposed to offshoring, I just don’t think it should be so easy that it jeopardizes jobs to the point that unemployment will rise to unmanageable levels.

  196. karmahd says:

    Business first rule, pass the cost to the consumer, if government increased taxes that is passed through to the consumer via an increase in price to maintain a fixed profit ratio.

    Second most large corporations are PUBLICLY held, thus you as a consumer have the right to participate in there profits via the purchase of stocks or bonds issued by that company. The inequities that come about are when the business models are forced to continue to offer dividens to its shareholders and out of overall competition seek to offer these profits become, ohhh how do I put it ‘just fucking stupid”, they cut corners, they cheat, the fire and hire based on projections and all so they can offer a profit to there shareholders!!!

    So do changes have to be made in the business model yes, but so do they in the consumer who is ever more greedy in there expectation of a consistent profit as a shareholder. EVERYONE wants to be rich and rich right now that is the problem, instant gratification is the major and the keystone to all of our problems, no one is willing to invest long term and build wealth, they are all looking for the shortcut’s thus the criminal element in big business. Motto “Cheat to Win”

  197. rosehips says:

    I totally agree karma about the stockholders want profits now! that bugs me to no end. Even when the corporate heads want to be responsible they sometimes have their hands tied because of the stockholders demands. That is why they cut corners and don’t invest in environmental protection. grrrr…. I hate greed.

  198. billalmighty says:

    businesses are in survival mode..

    it’s a very different environment now

    they can’t pass on increases to the consumer like they used to or they risk losing customers and going bust. things have changed, and industry needs to change too

    businesses are having to figure out how to survive and do business in the new world

    it’s called competition, and is a very good thing for capitalist societies

    dammit, i was gonna stay out of this…

  199. karmahd says:

    Yes the environment is very different, and I am going back to work after this one, but if you look at business like a pack mule, you have one mule and he has just plowed 100 acres and its the end of the day, do you ride him back to the barn???

  200. billalmighty says:

    if that’s a saying, i don’t know the punch line

    if not, there are too many variables for one correct answer

    sorry, i don’t get it

    lol

  201. billalmighty says:

    i forgot

    rip, jack kemp

  202. karmahd says:

    LOL Bill! OK Karmahd metaphor service at your service…

    business=pack mule or plow horse whatever, you send him out for a long day of work and he does his job plows the 100 acres, he is beat and all he wants it to get to the barn IE; market, and you the owner of the horse or government in this case want to ride him (taxes) back to the barn, and I made it up, I am really laughing at this one…

  203. billalmighty says:

    i think i get that…that the tax burden would be too much and he wouldn’t make it?

    in reality, many companies don’t cheat, and pay their taxes and make a profit every day.

    the idea is to target the slimy ones who are blatantly exploiting the loophole.

    it’s actually a conservative concept that has been asserted by a liberal, which makes it sort of a funny irony that a. obama ended up being the president that finally proposed it – and b. that conservatives are now opposing it.

    you are right…the power of suggestion is mighty

    paying taxes isn’t driving any legitimate business to bankruptcy…that’s on the individual to be as smart as possible to maximize profits for his business

  204. billalmighty says:

    lol @ karma metaphor service….and an awesome metaphor.

    sort of.

  205. LisaInTX says:

    VF
    I think this report is without doubt, your BEST ONE thus far!!!
    It NAILS the Socialist agenda right between the eyes!!! Well Said and Well Written!!
    10 Trillions stars!! :-}

  206. LisaInTX says:

    Hello everyone—-just checking in after being without internet for almost two days. ERRR..we had 4 storms back to back that rolled thru here on Saturday and many folks are still without power.
    Gotta run—take care
    Lisa

  207. billalmighty says:

    “The Government Accountability Office reported that over 80 percent of the hundred biggest U.S. companies took advantage of tax havens.

    In 2008 the GAO found that one five-story building in the Cayman Islands, known as the “Ugland House,” contained 18,857 registered businesses, very few of which had anything but a P.O. box there.

    Bailout beneficiaries Morgan Stanley, Citigroup, and Bank of America boast over 300 subsidiaries in the Cayman Islands.”

    “In 2004, U.S.-based multinational corporations paid about $16 billion in U.S. taxes while earning about $700 billion offshore, an effective tax rate of about 2.3 percent, according to the administration statement. The top marginal tax rate for U.S. companies is 35 percent; drug companies such as Amgen Inc. and technology companies such as Microsoft are among companies that make the biggest use of tax-deferral benefits.

    The rules were originally designed to reduce paperwork for companies and the IRS by allowing companies to classify entities within their corporate structure in the most tax-efficient manner without inviting a tax challenge.

    Unintended Consequence

    Clinton administration officials realized they also had made it easy for multinationals to create entities whose only purpose was to shift profits into low-tax countries and out of reach of the tax authorities, according to a January Government Accountability Office report that found 83 of the 100 biggest companies had subsidiaries in tax havens.

    Once the assets were in the haven, the U.S. parent company borrowed from the subsidiary. The interest payments were deductible in the U.S. and tax-free in the haven, the GAO said.”

  208. karmahd says:

    Bill that all kind of fits into my point about meeting stockholders expectations doesnt it? Query members of congress and check to see what PAC committies they belong to and how that money is spent, that too is a tax shelter, and every single member of congress and the house probably take advantage of it as well.

  209. billalmighty says:

    it does fit your point about the stockholders, but again the rules have changed since the onset of this economic depression.

    i actually worked for a couple of old pacs back in the 80’s and 90’s…and can tell you that they only has as much integrity as the people involved.

    believe it or not, the opposition usually watches a pac’s finances like a hawk any more….trying to find any inappropriate thing they can find

    campaign contributions….another nightmare of it’s own

    it’s harder for large sums of money to disappear without explanation

  210. billalmighty says:

    a little off subject, but

    speaking of corrupt millionaires…

    couldn’t jerry jones have afforded a little better practice facility for his pro football team than a glorified tent?

    sad situation down there in dallas

  211. karmahd says:

    Well I think Jerry blew the wad on the new stadium!! Buc’s fan here, totally new team new coach, I have no clue what is gonna show up on opening day!!

  212. billalmighty says:

    well, i’m not a big football fan but i am a weather nut, and i thought it was ridiculous to have a $100 million plus facility with a $2500 party rental tent as a field house. those people are lucky to be alive.

    i’ve enjoyed hanging out with you all today – gotta go make some money myself. see you soon

  213. ohiobelle says:

    I’m back. Did I miss anything?

  214. ohiobelle says:

    Has vf even checked in today?? I keep missing her!!!!

  215. karmahd says:

    Nope I just got back from the gym, no VF and nobody but us around, gotta run myself, time to eat

  216. ohiobelle says:

    Well thank you for letting me know…
    Have a nice night Karma.

  217. ohiobelle says:

    I am hoping somebody can fill me in on what’s been happening on iCry… I’ve been busy the past couple of days and I am starting to feel left out!!! hahaha

  218. VF, yes I read Shelby Steeles stuff too and the part you put back up for me. I guess I thought he was saying they were mad at him for being a conservative black man. But that he was holding his ground. I mean if your convicitions are your convictions, then you don’t just change your mind because people get mad at you. My very best friend in the whole world (earthly) is so liberal and we just cannot discuss politics at all. I mean it would come to blows if we did. It is very unfortunate and a shame.So, I guess from that I can sort of imagine what it might be like for someone black to not be liberal????

  219. I guess it was like they felt he was against their race as well instead of it just being his convictions.

  220. VF, have you seen my latest post? did you know this ? I mean I guess we all know it is going on, but gosh! dog it.
    http://warrantonegirl.wordpress.com/2009/05/03/white-house-directly-threatend-my-client/

  221. Hey VF, on this post. I wonder how Arlene army feels? I sure have the utmost respect for her as I’m sure she probally faces persecution; I mean I would imagine. God love her. I cannot imagine as I’m sure the girl at the TEA party in Dallas TX and the guy here in Alabama that I did the TEA Party post on here too. Kevin Elkins, I’m sure he faces persecution from the black community. I do pray for him and anyone facing those circumstances. As I cannot stand being called racist because I am not. I will stand up against someone white/etc. right off if they are wrong and send them to jail if they are wrong if that is what it was, however I do not see that on the other side of the fence and it is very sorrowful.Anyway this is a great and informative post. Very well thought out and presented.

  222. billalmighty says:

    gm everyone. anybody lurking?

  223. rosehips says:

    hi bill…pretty dead in here. how ya doing?

    vf has not returned from golfing yet? what’s up vf?

  224. ohiobelle says:

    yawn…. good morning bill.

  225. ohiobelle says:

    good morning rosehips.

  226. VotingFemale says:

    Morning Everyone! Looks like yesterday was a lively and civil debate.

    You will never see that at iSuppress/iCry/iWhine/iSocialistPartyMediaCensored

    Bottom line is this… promoting and instilling a Victim Role for blacks results in promoting and instilling attacks of Shame and Submission on Conservative Whites and Blacks…

    Any African American who watched closely, the CNN series called “Black In America” knows exactly what I am talking about.

    Folks… bowing your head in shame if you are white and yielding to peer pressure of power hungry Socialist Blacks if you are African American is to strengthen the grip the Socialists have on the Black Race by keeping alive the Socialist Political Warfare for Profit and Power via trapping folks into playing victim in order to finger point at Conservative Whites and Blacks.

    This can be defeated… and the Socialists are spreading the seeds of their own defeat.

    What they do is a disservice to all Americans… and this American is no coward, Attorney General Holder.

    I will not be cowed or intimidated. African Americans are human beings deserving of all a Free Market represents. Let People avail their potential as Free Market Success pursuing humans beings.

    There are many Conservative African Americans and many more who would be once the Great Socialist Lie is Uncovered and their Socialist Media is run out of business for being the self serving Lying Socialists they are.

    The Socialist Zombie Trolls being trotted out by the Socialist Media are poster children for what is Evil in the Socialist Party of Obama.

    Radicalism Loses Eventually and God Willing it will Always Lose. IT is like a virus that erupts as each new generation comes of age… and it infects like a virus… but… Immunity is Truth and Wisdom… which is often painful to obtain yet is of the Strength of Steele.

  227. ohiobelle says:

    Good morning vf!

  228. billalmighty says:

    hi rose, belle, and vf

    i’m chugging coffee, rose…kick start the noggin 🙂

    i enjoyed yesterday’s debate….your post is provocative vf

    i like that

  229. ohiobelle says:

    bill, I traded coffee for ice tea… much easier to chug first thing in the morning.

  230. billalmighty says:

    lol @
    iSuppress/iCry/iWhine/iSocialistPartyMediaCensored

  231. billalmighty says:

    mmhmm…i like tea sometimes too, but i like that warm drink in the morning. i don’t even know why. psychological i guess.

    how did you play yesterday, vf?

  232. samiam60 says:

    Good morning all and hope everyone is having a great day.

  233. ohiobelle says:

    Good morning sam. How have you been?

  234. samiam60 says:

    I woke up with a fever and feel like crap. If everyone would have a pity party for me today I like that kind of stuff as I am a really big baby when I get sick. Hope all of you have a great day today and will be on an off depending how all this goes.

  235. billalmighty says:

    it seems the all dems aren’t going to support obama’s overseas tax loophole policy….

    harry reid is expressing concern over protecting the interests of the multinational companies that are exploiting the loophole and ripping us off. he is just as crooked as the companies themselves. the repubs better get behind this and pass it or we will only guarantee that big corporations and their unchecked greed and corruption will continue to run the world.

    i/m/o

  236. billalmighty says:

    get well sam

  237. billalmighty says:

    wow, excellent grammar i have, eh?

  238. ohiobelle says:

    Sam wrote: I woke up with a fever and feel like crap….

    SAM YOU MUST STAY IN BED!! YOU HAVE THE SWINE FLU!!

  239. billalmighty says:

    call the national guard, sam

    they have tamiflu

  240. billalmighty says:

    is vf trying to be all mysterious and scarce?

    she’s doing “blog-by’s” – which is a drive-by, blogfully speaking

  241. ohiobelle says:

    I’m not sure.. she threw us a bone then took off.

    Bill wroteL is vf trying to be all mysterious and scarce?

  242. ohiobelle says:

    Sam, did you hear that 1,000 pounds of high-grade nitrate fertilizer was stolen from a business in Alabama??

  243. ohiobelle says:

    Sorry Bill.. my question was for you as well.

    did you hear that 1,000 pounds of high-grade nitrate fertilizer was stolen from a business in Alabama??

  244. rosehips says:

    vf!!! glad you are back and ok. how was your golf game yesterday? I was worried you were maybe struck by lightning out on the course, or perhaps attacked by those sore lady losers. Did you beat them?

  245. billalmighty says:

    i didn’t hear that.

    hmmm…

    remember last year sometime…there were a bunch of middle eastern college students that disappeared from a school they were attending?

    they all disappeared into the general population one night and, as far as i know haven’t been found

    i have no doubt there are more terror cells in the states

  246. ohiobelle says:

    rosehips, vf took off again.. how are you doing?

  247. rosehips says:

    and hi belle and sam!

    Sam I have not asked belle that little favor yet. Today would be a good day to ask her. How far away do you two live from each other?

    belle, I told sam I’d fix him dinner sometime but since he is so far, I was wondering if you would fill in for me…..

  248. samiam60 says:

    Thankyou OhioBelle and Bill, I hope it is not swine flu. I did it eat ham the other day but it was a “Cured” ham so I thought it was safe.
    I like the Pity Party stuff alot. I can’t stay in bed all day, I have things I must get done so I am trying to do as much as I can in case this gets worse. Hope all of you have a really great day.

  249. rosehips says:

    i thought those college students went to canada bill? I may be thinking of another story, and that one is so vague i couldn’t really tell you more.

  250. rosehips says:

    they can make meth out of that fertilizer too, no?

  251. ohiobelle says:

    Bill, I guarantee terrorist cellls are still here. Maybe if our government would stop looking at right wingers then they’d see the cluster that lies ahead…

  252. billalmighty says:

    i think the school they were attending was in florida or alabama

  253. rosehips says:

    sam, now haven’t you heard you can’t get the flu from pork?

  254. ohiobelle says:

    rosehips wrote: belle, I told sam I’d fix him dinner sometime but since he is so far, I was wondering if you would fill in for me…..

    Rosehips, Sam has the swine flu… maybe when he gets better. lol

    I think Sam lives about 2 hours north of me.

  255. rosehips says:

    and i heard that tamiflu stuff is pretty toxic. I would not take it. just get over the flu naturally and you will be stronger for it.

    I heard that plans are in place that if avian flu hits we will all be forced to take the vaccine, which the Chinese are stockpiling, and if we refuse we can face imprisonment! okay, lock me up officer. but don’t force that medicine down my throat or I’ll sue yer ass.

  256. rosehips says:

    yes belle, he has the swine flu and needs a woman’s care. mr belle wouldn’t mind you helping out a sick friend would he?

  257. ohiobelle says:

    Rosehips, I don’t know if it is in meth. I tried to copy the link but I couldn’t do it. Here is the article..

    Burglars targeted a Tuscumbia business early Thursday morning. What’s most alarming is what the thieves took from business. The stolen property is potential dangerous material.

    Approximately 1,000 pounds of high-grade nitrate fertilizer was taken from Greens Keepers on Gann Boulevard in Tuscumbia. The company handles fertilization and weed control for residential and commercial lawns. The owner, John Wagner, says he’s been in business for twelve years and nothing like this has ever happened.

    “It’s very unusual,” says Wagner. “It was a very big shock to walk in at 7:00 a.m. and see all this gone.”

    Sometime early Thursday morning, burglars broke in the business. First, they tried to bust through this glass window in the front of the building. When that didn’t work, police say the crooks pried open the side door.

    “It appears that 25 to 30 bags of high-grade nitrate fertilizer was taken off the premises,” explains Wagner.

    The thieves stacked the bags of fertilizer onto one of the company trucks, attached a trailer to the back, and loaded a lawn mower on it. The crooks also rummaged through the office – grabbing two computers, an iPod, and a cordless phone.

    The stolen property is valued at several thousand dollars. For Wagner, that’s not the most unsettling part.

    “The cost of the fertilizer is not the issue, it’s the quantity and the potential for bad guys,” explains Wagner. ”

    Wagner worries that having the large amount of fertilizer in the wrong hands could lead to something very dangerous.

    “It could potentially be made into a bomb,” says Wagner.

    Tuscumbia police say as the burglars were driving off, the trailer, lawn mower, and some fertilizer fell off somewhere on King Street. Shortly after that, investigators say the burglars abandoned the truck on Sterling Boulevard.

    The truck and trailer were returned to Greens Keepers. Police are still on the hunt for the fertilizer and the people responsible for taking it.

    Right now, the Tuscumbia Police Department does not have any suspects and is asking for the public’s help to develop some leads. If you have any information about the crime or know where the fertilizer may be, call the Shoals Area CrimeStoppers at (256) 386 – 8685

  258. ohiobelle says:

    rosehips wrote: yes belle, he has the swine flu and needs a woman’s care. mr belle wouldn’t mind you helping out a sick friend would he?

    ah no problem… mr belle woud even drive me over. lol

  259. rosehips says:

    well that is scary belle. but at least they didn’t break into a nuke plant and steal plutonium.

  260. ohiobelle says:

    rosehips wrote: well that is scary belle. but at least they didn’t break into a nuke plant and steal plutonium.

    Isn’t this the same fertilizer that was used in the Oklahoma City bombing?? I could be wrong but I wouldn’t have brought it up if I didn’t think so.

  261. rosehips says:

    it could be belle. I hope they catch the theives. And I hope they turn out to be domestic terrorists and not islamic ones.

  262. ohiobelle says:

    Rosehips, Anything new on iCry??

  263. rosehips says:

    maybe it is the new black panther party plotting a bombing of a whitey stronghold. what would be the most appropriate target for that? the fbi should be watching closely…only kidding bpp.

  264. ohiobelle says:

    rosehips, lol I couldn’t even copy your comment. “whitey”?? C’mon rosehips. We prefer obstructionist, anti-patriotic, mud slingin’, name callin, no tax payin’, belly achin’, Armageddon predictin’ , FEMA campin’, Limbaugh listenin’, “I’m not a racist, but I can’t explain why I’m hatin”, tea baggin’, don’t know why I’m protestin’, iReport pollutin’, iTroll sclap takin’, garbage postin’, Beck quotin’, no idea havin’, complainin’, just say No poutin’, progressive blockin’, NWO fear-mongerin’, Castro slammin’, North Korea knockin’, Iran bustin’, HAMAS hatin’, UN bashin’, constitution-huggin’, Jefferson quotin’, gun totin’, First Amendment worshipin’, bible quotin’, Obama slammin’, Liberal smearin’, Socialist baitin’, separatist promotin’, CNN slammin’, Marxist hatin’, or domestic terrorist.. but we find whitey offensive. lol

  265. rosehips says:

    not looked much belle. i visited blabbylips post on ethics yesterday. that was a good discussion and pretty civil. She hadn’t told me that she almost lost her job for speaking up about the inadequate care of the residents at the nursing home she works at. They cut the staff down and noone else could speak up because they depend on their wages. blabs took a risk and now her hours have been cut down to two days a week, which she welcomes because it gives her more time to garden and go to the beach. and because she spoke out, the v.p. realized the bad decision that led to the cutting of staff, and reversed the decision. happy ending, sort of.

  266. billalmighty says:

    it is the exact stuff that timothy mcvey used in ok city….and there’s other types of fertilizer to choose from that won’t work as an explosive, if that’s all you’re after

    this type of stuff stolen in this quantity is likely for explosive purposes. whether that will be in the form of terrorism against the US remains to be seen

    it’s terrible that we have to worry about our own extremist citizens committing acts of terror against us

  267. rosehips says:

    belle, and where is the best place to find these people, all in one place? oh I know…at one of them megachurches. lol.

    …obstructionist, anti-patriotic, mud slingin’, name callin, no tax payin’, belly achin’, Armageddon predictin’ , FEMA campin’, Limbaugh listenin’, “I’m not a racist, but I can’t explain why I’m hatin”, tea baggin’, don’t know why I’m protestin’, iReport pollutin’, iTroll sclap takin’, garbage postin’, Beck quotin’, no idea havin’, complainin’, just say No poutin’, progressive blockin’, NWO fear-mongerin’, Castro slammin’, North Korea knockin’, Iran bustin’, HAMAS hatin’, UN bashin’, constitution-huggin’, Jefferson quotin’, gun totin’, First Amendment worshipin’, bible quotin’, Obama slammin’, Liberal smearin’, Socialist baitin’, separatist promotin’, CNN slammin’, Marxist hatin’, or domestic terrorist.. but we find whitey offensive. lol

  268. rosehips says:

    ok, maybe i shouldn’t make jokes. not only is it not funny, but the feds might be trolling this blog. oh my. i think i’m feeling delusional. what should i take for that?

  269. billalmighty says:

    tamiflu

  270. ohiobelle says:

    bill wrote: it’s terrible that we have to worry about our own extremist citizens committing acts of terror against us

    It may not be “extremist citizens”. Question… I could be wrong but a couple of months ago (maybe not even that long) I recall hearing about the military sending troops to a city in Alabama. Did you hear this? Was it Alabama?

  271. rosehips says:

    I also did visit oldschool’s post but didn’t comment. I didn’t read all the comments but I know there was some lively discussion. I might go back see what is happening there now.

  272. ohiobelle says:

    rosehips wrote: belle, and where is the best place to find these people, all in one place? oh I know…at one of them megachurches. lol.

    We “whiteys” stopped going to church rosehips. lol

  273. billalmighty says:

    haven’t heard that belle

  274. rosehips says:

    tamiflu would be the perfect way to defeat our country.
    or the avian flu vaccine. I don’t know where they are making the tamiflu but if China is producing vaccines, I would not want to take it. they can lock me up. We can’t trust China as far as you can throw a feather. ask ladyshomejnl. She seemed to have the goods on china. I wonder if she is back as an alias?
    vf, where’d you go?

  275. ohiobelle says:

    Rosehips wrote: ok, maybe i shouldn’t make jokes. not only is it not funny, but the feds might be trolling this blog.

    FOR THE FEDS THAT ARE READING THIS..

    STOP WASTING YOUR TIME ON INNOCENT PEOPLE! COUNTRYWIDE DODD, BARNEY FUDD, NANCY PELOSI AND HARRY REID ARE MORE OF A THREAT TO OUR COUNTRY THAN THIS BLOG SITE. GOOD DAY!

  276. VotingFemale says:

    I have been watching the live interview of Tom Laruia… there is a live White House Press conference at 10 eastern… in five minutes if they manage to do something on schedule which is a rebuttal to Tom Laruia’s claim that Obama threatened to ruin investment firms who are first in line creditors for Chrysler.

    this is going to slow motion explode… right in Obama’s face. There is no place for Chicago Politics tactics in the White House…

    the Obama people, forged in the hot house of Chicago politics, are very adept at following Chicago rules. “If they come at you with a knife, pull a gun. If they put one of yours in the hospital, put one of theirs in the morgue.”

    The astonishing part is that the Obama administration, if one is to believe Thomas Lauria, believes that it can rely on the White House press corps to do its bidding insofar as ruining the reputation of an opponent of the administration it is covering. Technically, the White House press corps does not work for the White House.

    the Obama people, forged in the hot house of Chicago politics, are very adept at following Chicago rules. “If they come at you with a knife, pull a gun. If they put one of yours in the hospital, put one of theirs in the morgue.”

    The Obama administration, if Thomas Lauria’s allegations are proven, believes that it can rely on the White House press corps to do its bidding insofar as ruining the reputation of an opponent of the administration it is covering. Technically, the White House press corps does not work for the White House but in reality they are the Media Arm of the Socialist Master Race and in particular, Obama, self appointed Ruler of the World.

  277. ohiobelle says:

    Bill wrote haven’t heard that belle

    I am going to check this out. I recall hearing this and wondering why troops would be stationed to a city??? It didn’t make sense until now. Now I wonder if our government is not telling us about current threats?

  278. billalmighty says:

    rose – the tamiflu thing was a joke

    belle – regardless of how you feel the govt is victimizing everyone, there are still crazy citizens, like mcvey, that we have to worry about. and that’s terrible i/m/o

  279. ohiobelle says:

    vf, thank you. I will check it out.

  280. rosehips says:

    belle, some of us stopped going, but church-goin’ is alive and well in america. the Catholic Church is having problems keeping up its membership, I think. Their rules are just too strict. I don’t know if they’ve changed any since I was in it way back, but if you divorce and remarry you out, no pre-marital sex, no birth control, no abortion, priests are celibate, no gay sex, not sure about masterbation, no eating anything an hour before communion, sex only for reproduction purposes, Church every sunday or you are doomed to hell, no meat on friday, women wear hats in church always…oh strike that last one, I think they changed that one.
    and the priests are all gay or pediphiles and the nuns are lesbians or abused. lol.

  281. m2elena says:

    Mornin’ people… check this out for a laugh.
    Can you ‘see’ it rosehips?

    Ha ha…

  282. billalmighty says:

    hi vf –

    after all the watergate and bill clinton drama, please tell me we have more to go on than he said she said.

    is obama on tape threatening anyone?

    or is this one of his attorneys who allegedly said this and it’s being attributed to obama?

  283. m2elena says:

    It’s just like a Marxist to threaten private industry and then use the full power of their “propaganda” press.

    That opinion was written for Bill! LOL.

  284. billalmighty says:

    yep, private industry are all victims too…

    everyone is….we’re all victims

    lol

    morning m2 🙂

  285. VotingFemale says:

    well… I watched the interview “at the white house” not “by the white house.”

    I guess we will have to wait for further statements “by the white house” as this situation with Obama’s Bullying unfolds over the coming days.

    But there is already enough proof of Obama’s Bully Tactics to write a blog Post on.

  286. rosehips says:

    holy fu(k! they gonna pay for that one. the supreme court just ruled on the censorship issue. one f word slips out and you are doomed. big fines. and I believe the fines are the same for small independant stations. imo, that’s wrong.

    good moring m2,
    yes, i saw the vid. thanks!

  287. m2elena says:

    They threaten with The White House Press corps?

    How ENCHANTING!

  288. VotingFemale says:

    Morning Bill.

    I see you are in fine form this morning lolol

    prepare yourself… you are fun to toy with dear!

    lol

  289. m2elena says:

    I wonder why you couldn’t see it before?
    Maybe VF had it write, that your wordpress needed to get updated. That’s weird.

    I just love the barge is slowly moving for a good 10 seconds… hilarious.

  290. VotingFemale says:

    ENCHANTMENT of Obamalot!

    hahahahahahahahaha

    barf! tee-hee

  291. billalmighty says:

    well, vf it’s hard to be quiet when you’re as right as i am

  292. Indycoltsfan says:

    good morning everyone!

  293. m2elena says:

    RIGHT. shit.
    now ‘write’… coffee jitters mind connections.

  294. VotingFemale says:

    cool Mr Bill! if you say so….

    meow! hahahahaha

  295. billalmighty says:

    that was an old quote from rush limbaugh, btw

    and a joke…

  296. m2elena says:

    Ahhh! not -not now.
    lord… step away from the keyboard.

  297. m2elena says:

    was half your brain tied behind your back to make it fair on us?

  298. LisaInTX says:

    Good Morning my fellow conservative Extremist! ;-]

    Belle, RIGHTON @ naming those that are REALLY endangering our country—I could add more to your list, but why should we do the FBI’s job for them??? LOL….hahahaa

  299. m2elena says:

    hello lisa you slaver-racist!

  300. billalmighty says:

    lol…m2

  301. VotingFemale says:

    Morning Indy! M2! Mr Bill! Rosehips! OhioBelle!

    What an Enchanted Government we have…. sigh

    I feel tingles running up mah’leg!!!

    ohh… it was one of Obama’s hog nosed trolls looking for a signal from Barack on whom to attack next… grunt grunt squealllll

    hahahahahahaha

  302. ohiobelle says:

    holy crap, I just walked away for a minute and I can’t keep up with all the comments.

    Good morning M2!

  303. m2elena says:

    isn’t it enchanting? The the unconstitutional totalitarian thuggery on Chysler? Enchanting! Take that tea-baggers!

  304. VotingFemale says:

    sooo… Obama threatens Administrators of investment firms on television then thinks they are going to get away with threats off camera?

    Their arrogance is their own worst enemy…

    I love it!

  305. m2elena says:

    Good morning everybody!

  306. ohiobelle says:

    vf wrote: What an Enchanted Government we have…. sigh

    lol. Emanuel has some nerve.

    Good morning Lisa.

  307. VotingFemale says:

    I can only hope Obama is arrogant enough to nominate Sonya Sotomayor for the Supreme Court!

    Go for it Obama! You are da man right? can do what ever comes into that radical Soicalist head of yours, right! GO FOR IT! MAKE MY DAY DUMBASS! hahahahahahaha

  308. m2elena says:

    Oh belle, you know Rahmbo has his hands full working on the website for the Treasury Dept. and micromanaging the Treasury. Cause isn’t that the job of the WH Chief of Staff?—…oh, wait…

  309. LisaInTX says:

    M2
    That video was funny. And she came back and apologized!! ahhaaaaa
    I used to find the “F” word offensive, but then I found out WHAT it stood for, so now what the hell is the beef with it?
    For
    Unlawful
    Carnal
    Knowledge

    How is THAT a cuss word??It’s initials that reflect a legal term???LMAO
    I remember when “H-E-double toothpicks was a cuss word according to my dad….hahahaa

  310. ohiobelle says:

    vf, “GO FOR IT! MAKE MY DAY DUMBASS!”

    my god, I have to pick myself up off the floor after reading that. lol

  311. LisaInTX says:

    M2
    I just bought me a couple of new whips—gotta practice that forward snap for the future ya know…LOL

  312. m2elena says:

    I didn’t know that Lisa…
    Did you hear about Christian Bale’s rant (he was Batman) against the Director of Photography on the Terminator movie? He went of on a cussing tirade for about 5 minutes.

  313. rosehips says:

    belle, I walked away too and wow!

    hey indy, and helloooo lisa!

    where did foxy go? I miss his musical choices.

  314. Indycoltsfan says:

    check this out.
    Major News concerning CENSORSHIP: The Threat to Silence Talk Radio
    11:42 AM PDT, April 23, 2009
    The hearing noted below is TWO DAYS after release of Censorship on May 5th. Timing is everything. This move below is intended to move aside conservative talk in America. The issue is prominently featured in the book.
    Brian Jennings
    FCC “Diversity Committee” To Meet May 7

    That’s the date announced by acting FCC Chairman Michael Copps for a meeting of the new members of the Commission’s Advisory Committee On Diversity For Communications In The Digital Age. Representatives on the committee include broadcasters, telecomm executives, and representatives of various associations and public interest groups. Copps, who’s made no secret that increasing diversity in media ownership will be a priority of the FCC in the months ahead, said the committee is charged with providing an “independent voice” to make recommendations to the Commission with regard to policies and practices that will further enhance the ability of minorities and women to participate in telecommunications and related industries. Copps reportedly wants to get the ball rolling on the diversity issue prior to the arrival of Julius Genachowski, President Obama’s nominee for FCC Chairman. You can view a complete list of the committee members at http://www.fcc.gov.

  315. m2elena says:

    Since that what the liberals choose their time fantasizing about Lisa… you probably made some trolls happy… grunt snort!

  316. m2elena says:

    indy nothing like that is surprising when you have a totalitarian style marxist regime with an enchanted “watchdog-my-ass” press corps.

    all fully expected.

  317. rosehips says:

    lisa, I won’t be surprised if your words are posted on other blogs and taken out of context. you bad. lol.

    lisa said: I just bought me a couple of new whips—gotta practice that forward snap for the future ya know…LOL

  318. LisaInTX says:

    Morning Belle, M2, VF, Indy, Bill, Rose

    M2
    Yeah I heard about that rant—sounds like he is taking himself a bit too serious. He hasn’t figured out yet, that he CAN BE replaced!

  319. billalmighty says:

    it’s strange how diversifying talk radio is deemed a threat and yet another conspiracy by conservatives

    i/m/o conservatives could stand to follow a little of steele’s advice from this post and reject this victim mentality….stop seeing everything as unfair to them……and truly empower themselves and win over some voters.

    can’t win elections without that

  320. rosehips says:

    and they are reopening the “investigation” into the wardrobe malfunction at the superbowl. c’mon…that ridiculous.

  321. m2elena says:

    Of course we are now witnessing gov’t by mob instead of lawful republic, so when a senator says something like “AIG ppl with bonuses should commit suicide”… even though lawmakers wrote in the bonus loophole…

    How we gonna expect anyone to stand up to censorship?

  322. LisaInTX says:

    Rose—LOL
    They do it daily so why not give them something ‘juicy’ to use from time to time? LMAO…hahaha

  323. rosehips says:

    so is it now established that liberals are the new racists and conservatives are the new blacks?

  324. m2elena says:

    I disagree with what you say bill and the attitude you say I as a conservative possess. Of course, that is because I believe in free market and individual right to succeed. I don’t call that being a “victim”.

  325. ohiobelle says:

    Lisa, I like that. hmm

    For
    Unlawful
    Carnal
    Knowledge

    Let me try one..

    Democrats
    Ignorance
    Could
    Kill us all!!

    Ahh I had to add the us all.. maybe I should add an S?? Let me rethink this.

  326. Indycoltsfan says:

    They are coming in through the back door to silence talk radio.

  327. m2elena says:

    what is victim is people complaining about “fairness” when one person is successful, and having a central gov’t entity step in to ‘redistribute’ the success. That is the definition of victim.

    Rather good for liberals who capitalize off the plethora of victims who do not believe in themselves, and therefore partake in envious unjust maneuvers which stacked up stacked leads to erosion of individual decision for life course. VICTIMS. LOL.

  328. rosehips says:

    funny, I bought a couple of tee shirts at the community yard sale saturday because they were made of “transitional cotton” which I guess is grown sustainably in Pakistan! The shirts were only 50 cents but the interesting thing is that one of the shirts says: “Green is the new Black” All the letters are in green print but “black” is in black print. What is that supposed to mean? I am afraid to wear it but I guess it means that it’s trendy to be green like it used to be trendy to be a civil rights activist????
    dunno.

  329. LisaInTX says:

    I fail to see how the government can have it both ways. They either have to censor all things offensive or none of it. Video games that are extremely violent are allowed and have been proven to cause criminal behavior, yet are allowed on the shelves.
    Clothing designers are allowed to create ‘styles’ for our young girls that make them look like hookers off the blvd, yet they are allowed and when young men/boys have sex with them, they are the ones that go to prison for doing what comes natural.

  330. rosehips says:

    lol vf! I’ll have to come up with some myself. hold on…
    vf said: Democrats
    Ignorance
    Could
    Kill us all!!

  331. m2elena says:

    Rosehips, it’s cause black is fashion’s most trendy and traditional hip color.

  332. LisaInTX says:

    Young girls should be “teenaged girls 13 and older”—many LIE about their age and its the boys that go to prison and get to be registered as sex offenders for the rest of their lives—the girls walk and nothing is done to them.

  333. m2elena says:

    they can censor anderson cooper then because saying ‘tea-baggers’ makes him sound like like a 3rd grader…

    and they can censor pelosi too b/c she is supposed to represent America and saying ‘astroturf’ is divisive.

    See what happens when ppl censor? Everything becomes subjective.

  334. rosehips says:

    ahhhh, makes sense m2. thanks!

  335. ohiobelle says:

    Indy, I believe they are using the censorship issue as a distraction for cap & trade. Which do you think is more important to them? Obama is losing his fight for cap & trade so they are going to throw censorship out there to get a hush rush deal passed on cap & trade.

  336. billalmighty says:

    it’s not a meeting about censoring anyone…if you read indy’s comment closely. the headline and content of the body say 2 different things

  337. Indycoltsfan says:

    For unlawful cardinal knowledge. Wasn’t that the name of a Van Halen album?

  338. rosehips says:

    lisa, I didn’t know what f~u~c~k stood for. thanks for the lesson.

    lisa I heard that a study in scandinavia or britain shows that girls are reaching puberty one year earlier then they were in the 90’s. this is very,very disturbing. and also there are way less boys being born.

  339. m2elena says:

    right bill, they use the guise of local boards pump em full of censoring loving people and remove the successful talk show hosts. Because they are scared of Rush, etc.

    he’s too successful, that is the guise- and they want to ‘fair’ up the playing field in the traditional socialist unfair way- make a board of elitists which decide the content, not the people like it is now, which means censor.

  340. LisaInTX says:

    M2
    I got into an argument with Gill one time and she called me a racist for saying the word ‘black”…LOL
    Now that was just about the STUPIDEST crap I’ve EVER heard!….So if she says the word “white” “Yellow” “Red” “Green” does that make her a racists?hahahaa

  341. ohiobelle says:

    Bill, I disagree with you.

    bill wrote: it’s not a meeting about censoring anyone…if you read indy’s comment closely. the headline and content of the body say 2 different things

  342. m2elena says:

    Yeah Lisa, I believe that about her.
    LOL …

    what a VICTIM!!! ha ha ha ha…

  343. rosehips says:

    my oldest son, austin, came back yesterday and we were just talking about letcherous men. I commented about the coffee shop owner who has a habit of groping women and seems clueless that it is offensive and might hurt his business to boot.
    He was hitting on my son’s good friend when she worked there. I mentioned this and austin said that he tells his female friends that if they don’t want to be groped, they shouldn’t wear boob shirts. He did have a point. this gal encouraged the groping by her reactions and just by tolerating it. I guess she has low self esteem.

  344. Indycoltsfan says:

    Talk Radio Ratings Skyrocket
    5:05 PM PDT, March 28, 2009, updated at 9:46 AM PDT, April 4, 2009
    Since this posted, Simon & Schuster has now tripled the first print run for this book!

    More people are listening to the radio than ever because they are concerned with the new administration. Conservative talk radio is reaping huge gains because listeners feel it is the only outlet to hear balanced opposition to the policies of the new administration. This is great news for interest in Censorship: The Threat to Silence Talk Radio. Endorsed by Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and best-selling author of Liberty & Tyranny, Mark Levin, we look forward to a tremendous launch at publication May 5th. This book tells the insidious story of how the left wants to eliminate conservative talk in America. Without it, there would be no balance in the media. This threat is real with Democrats soon holding a 3-2 majority on the FCC and regulations are being readied that would force liberal balance onto the hundreds of conservative radio stations in America. Free speech is in jeopardy. Below is an article from Radio & Records detailing the huge ratings gains of conservative talk in America. Timing for this book could not be better. Thank you.

    Rush’s Report Card
    By Mike Stern
    Updated 5 Hour(s) 42 Minute(s) ago

    Hidden deep in a sub-basement, shrouded in mystery, is a special unit in The Excellence in Broadcasting Network’s forces known as the Ratings Analysis Unit. This group of information experts have analyzed the latest PPM results for Rush Limbaugh’s show and sent a memo to El Rushbo detailing his recent successes.

    In New York, Chicago, Houston, Detroit and Los Angeles the show has leapt up to No. 1 in it’s timeslot for total audience 12+

    Other success stories including ranking second 12+ in San Francisco, third in Washington, fourth in Dallas and fifth in Atlanta.

    Limbaugh comments on the news, “These ratings are good news for all of us. It shows there’s a healthy hunger for some opposition to what is happening. Don’t feel alone. You’re not.”
    Comment

  345. LisaInTX says:

    Belle
    LOL@ D-I-C-K ….hahahaaa
    Now if we can only add the word “HEADS”to this….hahaha

  346. billalmighty says:

    belle

    ok

    m2-that’s another wingnut conspiracy theory

    you know, i heard that after obama sells out the country….borrows us into oblivion….sells our very souls…he’s going to start repo-ing cars and going door to door to collect guns and ammunition, too

    run for your lives!

  347. ohiobelle says:

    rosehips wrote: He was hitting on my son’s good friend when she worked there. I mentioned this and austin said that he tells his female friends that if they don’t want to be groped, they shouldn’t wear boob shirts. He did have a point. this gal encouraged the groping by her reactions and just by tolerating it. I guess she has low self esteem.

    No woman ever ask to be groped!! There are no excuses. She could wear a bikini and it still doesn’t give anybody the right to touch her. To say that she encouraged the groping really pisses me off. I know you can’t honestly believe that.

  348. LisaInTX says:

    Rose
    My oldest son is the one that informed of what the “F” word stood for after I repeatedly fussed at him for the use of this word. After learning what it stood for, I was like HUH?…..it’s initials for a legal term??? so how did THAT get to be such a taboo word?? sounds like a far rightwing plot to me—lol and as I’m not one of those, I rebelled…hahah

  349. VotingFemale says:

    Bill, The Socialists are Afraid of Conservative Talk Radio and have targeted them for years… where have you been?

    Of course the Socialists want to shut Conservative Radio Down… and will try whatever means they can find to do it…

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    and they will deny they are doing it at the same time! Ohhhh the stupidity of their games!

    duhhhhhh

  350. m2elena says:

    you can try and discredit the plan by the FCC by saying it’s a wingnut conspiracy, but it doesn’t mean it won’t happen!!! Ha ha ha ha….

    Keep plugging your ears and shutting your eyelids.

    That’s what most of America is doing as freedom is sold off and nationalized for 3o cents on the dollar.

  351. ohiobelle says:

    Bill wrote: you know, i heard that after obama sells out the country….borrows us into oblivion….sells our very souls…

    Bill, and to think that was only the first 100 days of hell…

  352. billalmighty says:

    another victims point of view….it never stops

  353. rosehips says:

    Rush…

    Righteous
    Unscrupulous
    Self-aggrandizing
    Histrionic

    lol!

  354. VotingFemale says:

    Obama will destroy the two party system…

    By his own arrogance he will seal the doom of his own party.

    That is the irony of it all…

  355. m2elena says:

    Bill how are we victims for believing in freedom of free enterprise. Explain.

  356. Indycoltsfan says:

    VF, I know that but now it is a real threat more than ever because the commies control everything and they want to shut down any dissent.

  357. m2elena says:

    I know VF! Ha ha…

  358. ohiobelle says:

    Rosehips,

    Sean..

    Sexy
    Educated
    Awesome
    Nobama

    What do you think?

  359. billalmighty says:

    m2 – you’re not victims for that

    victims of obama…and the left….and dems….and the media….and the government

    this very post and nearly every comment that follows expresses some form of how conservatives and their causes are the victims of everyone else

  360. rosehips says:

    belle, you are right I agree, there is no excuse…however women need to be proactive and should not encorage men. I mean this gal told scotty that if he touched her again she’d pour hot milk down his pants. c’mon. don’t you think that might only encourage him? Then I saw him be very dramatic by taking a chair, placing it in the middle of his coffee shop, grabbing brandi, pulling her into his lap and wrapping his arms around her. it bothered me because at the time my son was on the way up here to see her and they were flirting with the idea of hooking up and she was telling me how much she like him and wanted to get together. Then two weeks before he arrives she gets a new bf and austin was jilted, but it was a good thing anyway.

  361. m2elena says:

    Bill is a victim of labels.

    LMAO!!!!

  362. m2elena says:

    rose, so this girl was sexually harassed by her boss and she still works there? Why would she stay?

  363. rosehips says:

    belle, re: sean. educated? did he graduate hs? lol.

  364. ohiobelle says:

    bill wrote: another victims point of view….it never stops

    Look here beagle… stop fighting it, I believe you want to be a conservative republican but you are fighting it. Stop fighting it… come with us to the dark side. lol

  365. VotingFemale says:

    The Socialist Party is the PPU Party

    PPU= Poor Pitiful Us! them mean ole racist Conservatives are soo bad! lets lynch them all

    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

    The PPU party has turned Victims into a National Pass Time of the Socialist Sheep…

    baaaa BAAAAA baaaa

    We need new lyrics for “We Are The Champions” for the Socialist Theme Song:

    “We Are The Victims” … of the WORLD!!!!

  366. billalmighty says:

    you guys blame obama for the short comings of our government. you are behaving as if you are sore losers about the election…and still want to angrily jab at obama for beating whoever you wished would have won

    get over it and move on

    m2 -i am not a victim of anything…sorry if that drives you nuts 😉

  367. VotingFemale says:

    Indy, they will have to come into my house and cut my throat before I am silenced…

  368. billalmighty says:

    lol@ belle

  369. m2elena says:

    I see people talking about issues and perspectives and stances, including rosehips. That’s not ‘victim’-it’s called thinking. What is ‘victim’ is continually trying to box people into labels. For what? Who gives a shit.

  370. rosehips says:

    no she doesn’t work there. I don’t know the story but a guy I know said scotty fired her and it was pretty screwed up. I imagine she resisted his advances too agressively and he finally found another young thing to pursue. now he has that gal who lived in louisville. I hope she figures it out fast, she is too smart to not see through the guy. he is a narcissist and has some pretty warped ideas. yesterday he got pissed at me big time. I called him on his shit and he didn’t like it. oh well….

  371. billalmighty says:

    m2 – i don’t get that, but ok

  372. LisaInTX says:

    Indy
    Yes—I remember that album and that is what it stood for—LOL
    “For unlawful cardinal knowledge. Wasn’t that the name of a Van Halen album?”

  373. m2elena says:

    I’m gonna have to diagnose “psychological projection”.. as the word victim is used by you, bill, in almost every other comment. And it is only used by those you are calling victims, to respond to your comment. I diagnose you a …. wait for it. Victim!

    LOL!!!

  374. rosehips says:

    belle, you funny girl!

    belle said: Look here beagle… stop fighting it, I believe you want to be a conservative republican but you are fighting it. Stop fighting it… come with us to the dark side. lol

  375. ohiobelle says:

    bill wrote: you guys blame obama for the short comings of our government. you are behaving as if you are sore losers about the election…and still want to angrily jab at obama for beating whoever you wished would have won

    C’mon stop it!!! We had to listen and still continue to listen to the Bush bashings. It has nothing to do with being a sore loser. Obama is a big boy and can handle it just like Bush handled it.

  376. ohiobelle says:

    I am glad you liked that..

    rosehips wrote: belle, you funny girl!

    belle said: Look here beagle…

  377. rosehips says:

    and thanks m2 for including me in with the thinkers…I feel like an “honorary member” lol.

    m2 said: see people talking about issues and perspectives and stances, including rosehips. That’s not ‘victim’-it’s called thinking.

  378. billalmighty says:

    i come in here to look for debate about issues

    and i often find “victims” talking about what was done wrong against them or the country.

    period.

    there’s never any other topics, in my short experience of coming to vf’s blog

  379. VotingFemale says:

    Socialist Theme Song: We Are the Victims… of the World
    written and performed by Barack and the Enchanted Ones

    I’ve paid my dues –
    Time after time –
    I’ve done my sentence
    But committed no crime –
    And bad mistakes
    I’ve made a few
    I’ve had my share of sand kicked in my face –
    But I’ve come through

    We are the victims – my friends
    And we’ll keep on whining – till the end –
    We are the victims –
    We are the victims
    No time for losers
    ‘Cause we are the victims – of the world –

    I’ve taken my bows
    And my curtain calls –
    You brought me fame and fortune and everything that goes with it

    I thank you all –

    But it’s been no bed of roses
    No pleasure cruise –
    I consider it a challenge before the whole human race –
    And I ain’t gonna lose –

    We are the victims – my friends
    And we’ll keep on fighting – till the end –
    We are the victims –
    We are the victims
    No time for losers
    ‘Cause we are the victims – of the world –

  380. m2elena says:

    You don’t get that? You are the one that keeps bringing up the labels: conservative this, anti-obama that, “you are victims” …

    can we just get over labeling?

    bill says:
    m2 – i don’t get that, but ok

  381. m2elena says:

    have you asked rosehips who does not label herself a conservative if she feels the same Bill? Does she feel like there’s no debate?

    I don’t think so, because I have seen her giving her viewpoint. But maybe she can weigh in. She define us with her argument… she defines her belief system.

  382. m2elena says:

    Correct a typo: I mean she does NOT define us, she defines her belief system.

  383. billalmighty says:

    wow, really?

    you’rertight m2….i’m victimizing you too

    i’ll stop all the labeling and be fair

  384. ohiobelle says:

    Bill, you and I agree to disagree but we still discuss issues. What bothers me is being labeled a “victim” because I don’t like the anointed one. I will debate anything you like as long as you label me an obstructionist, anti-patriotic, mud slingin’, name callin, no tax payin’, belly achin’, Armageddon predictin’ , FEMA campin’, Limbaugh listenin’, “I’m not a racist, but I can’t explain why I’m hatin”, tea baggin’, don’t know why I’m protestin’, iReport pollutin’, iTroll sclap takin’, garbage postin’, Beck quotin’, no idea havin’, complainin’, just say No poutin’, progressive blockin’, NWO fear-mongerin’, Castro slammin’, North Korea knockin’, Iran bustin’, HAMAS hatin’, UN bashin’, constitution-huggin’, Jefferson quotin’, gun totin’, First Amendment worshipin’, bible quotin’, Obama slammin’, Liberal smearin’, Socialist baitin’, separatist promotin’, CNN slammin’, Marxist hatin’, or domestic terrorist….. any of the names above is better than “victim”.. Okay?

  385. billalmighty says:

    i meant -you’re right, m2 (oops)

  386. LisaInTX says:

    bill
    Victims rarely speak out on their behalf. Do you REALLY think that is what takes place here? LMAO
    Being AWARE of what is going on and discussing and spreading the word, means that we shall NOT go silently into that dark night! hahahaa ;-}

  387. m2elena says:

    That’s right bill, if you are going to label people, back up your argument against what they are bringing forward. For instance, did you find anything that said the FCC was not going to change the radio to local “boards” of people deciding what to broadcast before you labeled me a wingnut?

  388. ohiobelle says:

    vf wrote: Socialist Theme Song: We Are the Victims… of the World
    written and performed by Barack and the Enchanted Ones

    Oh that is the funniest thing I’ve ever heard..

  389. VotingFemale says:

    The Socialist Master Race keeps Their African Americans in the victim role… for profit and power… how can they blame conservatives with out victims???

    it is a powerful yet flawed ploy…

    and everyone is a racist who is not a Socialist… they even write warning via their newly taken over Department of Homeland Security to point fingers at everyone except members of the Socialist Party….

    Like I am so not going to be cowed by their bull shit game…

  390. billalmighty says:

    you guys are so deep, that you are now victims of me and my labels…and that’s our new topic

  391. billalmighty says:

    i can’t keep up with everyone at once…sorry

  392. ohiobelle says:

    bill wrote: i’ll stop all the labeling and be fair

    Beagle, all I want is fair and balanced..

  393. billalmighty says:

    i’ll keep trying

  394. m2elena says:

    I’m not the one using the word victim. I’d love to hear about your research that formulates your perspective. I was saying you sound like the victim with all this complaining…

    bill says:
    wow, really?

    you’rertight m2….i’m victimizing you too

    i’ll stop all the labeling and be fair

    you guys are so deep, that you are now victims of me and my labels…and that’s our new topic

  395. LisaInTX says:

    Rose
    The girl being “felt-up”—has a choice. She CAN stand up and tell that guy to keep his claws off of her, and she should also be aware not to expose allot of skin in the work place in order to portray herself in a better light to the public.
    If she does not stand up for herself in a positive way—IOW—not pouring hot liquids on a customer—then I agree, she has low self esteem or enjoys being felt-up.

  396. rosehips says:

    lots of talk about issues and healthy debate. I think we all feel like victims some times. It’s easy to see things as black and white and if they are against you they are the oppressors and have an evil agenda. these days the spin spreads like wildfire and what one person expresses as opinion on one blog might be stated as fact on another and perhaps embellished a bit and then it can take on a life of its own. scary how fast info flows these days.

  397. m2elena says:

    So bill what are the FCC’s plans about radio?

  398. ohiobelle says:

    vf wrote: and everyone is a racist who is not a Socialist… they even write warning via their newly taken over Department of Homeland Security to point fingers at everyone except members of the Socialist Party….

    Get that big red “R” sewn on that sweater.. lol

    Hey rosehips, get ready to throw us that bone when you walk by our cage. haha I will get my Sean and Rush tat machine ready for you. lol

  399. VotingFemale says:

    bill, you flatter yourself, dear…

    you only victimize yourself…

    we are under attack… and we are answering back… and growing stronger daily… the Socialists have no idea the sleeping Giant they have stirred…

    in many ways Obama has done conservatism a service… painful though the Socialist Attacks via an attempt at a government take over may be…

    and sheep follow along behind Obama the Enchanted One…

    hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

    This will not be easy… and it will not be quick
    but the true nature of the Socialists will be known to all through out the land…

    nice little sheepies! there there now…

    coo…

  400. billalmighty says:

    m2 you need to scroll and review how this conversation started.

    i’m not an ireport blogger, and i think you forget that sometimes and think i have a liberal agenda

    i don’t spend my time fighting against conservatives and their causes

  401. ohiobelle says:

    vf, I’m laughing so hard my eyes are watering..

    vf writes: “Obama the Enchanted One”

  402. LisaInTX says:

    VF
    ROTFLMAO@the Socialist theme song…hahahaaa

    And I agree—they have blamed EVERYONE that is NOT a part of their Socialist/Marxist plot!

  403. billalmighty says:

    vf said
    you only victimize yourself…

    we are under attack… and we are answering back… and growing stronger daily… the Socialists have no idea the sleeping Giant they have stirred…

    this speaks for itself..

  404. m2elena says:

    it’s a history of socialism VF. It needs a fabulous mass of victims. The Mafia even figured that out in Sicily… so much history.

    And always goes unregistered, which allows it to happen again and again.

  405. m2elena says:

    Bill what’s the word on FCC and radio? What do you think about the “Fairness Doctrine”…

  406. rosehips says:

    lisa, he’s not a customer, he’s the owner. but you are right. she needed to stand up and maybe she did. but she has severe mental illness and self esteem problem. she moved to the west side of the state and called me one day and things were not good. I think she uses her body to get things from men and austin mentioned something about a drug problem. She told me she flipped out and ended up in the hospital. she also had bi polar disorder. so there are many issues but the coffee shop guy is a letch and there is no excuse for it. I laughed at him yesterday for trying to tell a teenager, who appeared to me to have high functioning autism, about how to treat women. I just had to laugh out loud at the absurdity. That’s what got Scotty so mad. He later called the kid a sleazy, douchebag theif and another guy and I tried to explain its unfair to treat someone who is obviously not 100%. The kid had some insights that floored me, but no social skills apparently…

  407. LisaInTX says:

    M2
    I’m just wondering where the hell the Mafia is these days? Now THEY might be able to stop the madness?? I bet they have been replaced by the gangs from Mexico or the Japanese…..too bad, the GodFather at least was honorable to those loyal to him…LOL ;-} or he was in the movie…heeee
    Vito Corlene….where are you!!! Maybe Al Pacino knows??

  408. billalmighty says:

    and m2 –

    don’t look to me for any conspiracy theories about what the FCC may or may not do.

    i would say that the fairness doctrine will apply to EVERY talk radio program, liberal or conservative

  409. m2elena says:

    The fairness doctrine is designed to put in a board to decide on programming instead of free enterprise, the will of the people. You believe a board of selected people deciding is fair?

  410. m2elena says:

    You don’t have to guess what they do, or label it conspiracy… LOL. It says so in the actual law they push- which the FCC will implement.

  411. billalmighty says:

    the fairness doctrine is designed to give equal air time to controversial subjects by the different stations…according to wiki

    the rest is spin

  412. LisaInTX says:

    Bill
    I think the LINE has been drawn and defined very well by the Socialist-Marxist Party aka Dem Party.
    You are either WITH THEM or you are without doubt, against them. No in between—no gray area.
    If you do not agree 100% with EVERYTHING they say or stand for, you are discredited and labeled, therefore, deemed inferior in intelligence, and unworthy to exist except to pay your taxes so they can spread your wealth as they see fit to spend it.

  413. billalmighty says:

    conservatives are already of the mindset that the media is unfair and unbalanced against them to begin with…so of course,any further inclusion of the opposition would be seen by them as a conspiracy

  414. VotingFemale says:

    Bill, I enjoy your contributions to debate… and I always invited differences of opinion. While sometimes we agree and sometimes we don’t, I respect your rights to your points of view and enjoy being challenged. I think that is true of all of us… including you, dear.

    I block both the iReport-trolls and wprdpress-trolls from commenting on this blog because, frankly, they smell bad and their intellect is sub-standard. hahahahahaha

    And I encourage intelligent dialog of different points of view!

    course it is always a bit gratifying to spank a troll now and then… but that I do on their turf from time to time.

    Boo!!! hehehehehe

  415. m2elena says:

    -content to be determined decided determined by local boards.

  416. Indycoltsfan says:

    I miss the combat on ireports. You can still have a slugfest but they will ban you for sure. LOL!

  417. m2elena says:

    The Fairness Doctrine was founded to be unconstitutional in 1987.
    Who will decide these controversial fair-play aired programs?
    So you agree Bill? You agree with previous unconstitutional mucky designed granting of speech, elimination of free enterprise on radio?
    What say you?

    Bill says:
    the fairness doctrine is designed to give equal air time to controversial subjects by the different stations…according to wiki

    the rest is spin

  418. m2elena says:

    ahh indy, the good ol’ days when CONFOUNDED called me a bitch. I miss it so.

  419. VotingFemale says:

    And you will all see me speak up against the Mitt Romneys who fear thus hate Sarah Palin…
    Mitt made a Sexist Attack on Sarah at their little strip mall pizza joint… and you know what?
    If the GOP thought the PUMA Voter Backlash against Obama was humorous… watch the backlash against Mitt Romney over his Sexist Attacks on Sarah Palin.

    And Rush is calling it right…

  420. LisaInTX says:

    Obama INSULTS me personally every time he opens his Marxists big ass mouth! And his admin is the biggest outrage and joke since Hitler’s third Reich…..when are people going to open their eyes and see that history IS REPEATING ITSELF???

  421. billalmighty says:

    thanks vf –

    i enjoy the debate for sure

    i try to leave the sarcasm out, as that is what pushes buttons, but i’m guilty of it sometimes

    i appreciate your rules of engagement, although i must admit sometimes i see the lines blurred a little, if not crossed. but hey, we’re all human and passionate about what we think

    there’s probably an awful lot that we all agree on as americans despite what we disagree on

    i figure everyone in here as pretty thick skin and can get fired up during debate without having to apologize about it afterwards

    i hope i don’t offend, but if i do…..kiss my ass!

    lol

    ….another joke

  422. billalmighty says:

    m2 –

    who found it unconstitutional?

  423. LisaInTX says:

    Bill
    LOL@ kiss my ass! Dittos back to the beagle—hahahahaa ;-}

  424. Indycoltsfan says:

    Lisa, There might be a small positive bump in the economy but obama and company will kill that for sure with their higher taxes. The economy will be their undoing.

  425. billalmighty says:

    hmmm…

    can i get more research time on this?

  426. Indycoltsfan says:

    Wooooo Lisa! LOL!

  427. m2elena says:

    Really … I just want an honest position/perspective. If that requires research, cool.

    Not everything is about victim, spin, and conspiracy.

    I’m off, to run errands. See you victims later!

  428. rosehips says:

    lol @ i hope i don’t offend, but if i do…..kiss my ass!

  429. VotingFemale says:

    As rose will tell you I am both a consumer and a dispenser of the artful and creative sarcasm!

    And will also zero in on prevaricator’s attempts to double talk!

    billalmighty says

    thanks vf –

    i enjoy the debate for sure

    i try to leave the sarcasm out, as that is what pushes buttons, but i’m guilty of it sometimes

    i appreciate your rules of engagement, although i must admit sometimes i see the lines blurred a little, if not crossed. but hey, we’re all human and passionate about what we think

    there’s probably an awful lot that we all agree on as americans despite what we disagree on

    i figure everyone in here as pretty thick skin and can get fired up during debate without having to apologize about it afterwards

    i hope i don’t offend, but if i do…..kiss my ass!

    lol

    ….another joke

  430. LisaInTX says:

    Morning Indy
    :-}
    I agree. The economy and the spread the wealth plot is gonna bite the Enchanted One square on the butt cheeks!

  431. billalmighty says:

    i was wrong about the fairness doctrine being for equal time…..that’s the “equal time act”

    the fairness doctrine originated in 1949? was vetoed by reagan twice, and under the threat of veto from george sr, the dems finally dropped it

    from scanning the text i found…it dealt with personal attacks by media

    based on that, i will have to keep up with the meetings they are having currently to see what i think about what they propose

    i’m not ready to call it a conspiracy yet

  432. VotingFemale says:

    Obama is the point of the Socialist Sword… thus he gets blame/credit for the sins of his Party…

    Man up and get over it Bill! hahahaha

    It is a long way to 2012… and Obama the Enchanted One is an enjoyable Fool to watch in action.

    The Socialists are such whiners… ragged on Bush like a pitbull with a rat… and then cry like babies ….. Don’t Pick On My Bama Daddy!

    BOOO HOOO HOOITY GOO GOO HOOO!

    hahahahahahahahha

    billalmighty says

    you guys blame obama for the short comings of our government. you are behaving as if you are sore losers about the election…and still want to angrily jab at obama for beating whoever you wished would have won

    get over it and move on

    m2 -i am not a victim of anything…sorry if that drives you nuts 😉

  433. ohiobelle says:

    Sorry guys I got tied up.. I will be back shortly. I have something blocking the pond pump outside. I think a frog is stuck inside it… sigh

    Be back soon.

  434. VotingFemale says:

    ohhh they cry like the victims they are!!!

    poor poor widdle socialists… there there now…

    coo…

  435. LisaInTX says:

    I’ve owned and driven Jeep’s since 1988 and I find the Fiat “merger” to be unbelievable?
    What the heck will the ‘new’ designs look like??? YUCK most likely……:-[

  436. rosehips says:

    OBAMA
    O ffensive to the right
    B lack, actually only 1/2 blck
    A rticulat, if teleprompts wrk
    M Marxist, to the core
    A rrogant, and lovin’ it!

  437. LisaInTX says:

    Vf
    That last PC that Obama did really set me off again. He was all talking about those that ‘complained’ about paying taxes, yet little Tim was standing right beside him…Obama makes me want to puke with his ‘Self-righteous bull shit LIES! and propaganda!!

  438. LisaInTX says:

    Rose!!!!!
    WOW!! I’m totally and overly IMPRESSED!!! You ROCK girlfriend!!! heee ;-}

  439. VotingFemale says:

    LOL @ Rosehips!!!

    Obama is the best thing that has happened to conservatives since Reagan… painful though he may be for the time being 😉

  440. LisaInTX says:

    I’m gonna have to run for a bit…be back in about an hour…

  441. rosehips says:

    belle, that poor frog! maybe you should serve frong legs for dinner.

    I hope there aren’t any PETA trolls in here!

    ohiobelle // May 5, 2009 at 12:11 pm

    Sorry guys I got tied up.. I will be back shortly. I have something blocking the pond pump outside. I think a frog is stuck inside it… sigh

    Be back soon.

  442. rosehips says:

    thought you gurls might like that one! lol.

  443. billalmighty says:

    i hear you vf

    i think every single candidate that was in the race was a divisive personality….on both sides

    the fact that obama won is a victory for some and a defeat for others

    obama is king of the liberals, and not my pick for president…..he is, however, the president

    being more divisive over that fact doesn’t seem productive to me, whether i’m for him or not

    i’m for america, which includes all of you as well as the socialists

    i don’t read what i consider to be the imaginary sinister stuff into every move either side makes

    and i definitely don’t think i’m the one who is right and all of you should think my way

    i’m just another stupid political backseat driver

  444. VotingFemale says:

    Too late for that Bill… the eight years prior to Obama set a standard for picking on the president… can’t crap on bush for 8 years then change the rules…

    Obama will get slammed for the next 4 years without let up… what goes around comes around… and if he and his little band of socialist professional victims cant take it they all need to pack up and go back to Chicago.

    Bill says

    obama is king of the liberals, and not my pick for president…..he is, however, the president

    being more divisive over that fact doesn’t seem productive to me, whether i’m for him or not

  445. billalmighty says:

    i also type too slow so i end up answering comments that are way up the page, and i’m sure everyone goes, “what the hell does he mean by THAT?”

    sorry, i have man hands that don’t move with grace

  446. Indycoltsfan says:

    I have owned a fiat before. Those cars are a pieces of sh*t.

  447. rosehips says:

    I at first was against the fairness doctrine because I didn’t see Fox as really a threat and feel they have a right to cover what they want and spin however they desire and I want Free Speech TV and radio to have the same rights. But I understand how controlling the media is how Fox does influence so many on the right and it quite honestly scares me. They should have freedom of speech but if it wanders into lies and deception, I don’t think it’s ok. I think having balance is good but I guess with Fox that turns into a shouting match which I’ve seen plenty on cnn as well. I hate when everyone just shouts and really won’t listen to the opposing view except to react to what is said.

    so i’m not sure about the fairness doctrine. I think it may do more good than harm. It’s not really regulating free speech, just making sure that bias doesn’t invade the american mindset. I’m sure people will react completely opposite and see it as obama trying to manipulate the news and I understand that veiwpoint too. I’m not sure what is best.

  448. billalmighty says:

    actually, clinton was the first president to come under modern-day blanket national political attack….but that doesn’t fit your current war as much as saying it’s retaliation for W

    we all have our causes

  449. rosehips says:

    ok, gotta take a break. bbl.

  450. billalmighty says:

    rose –

    i’m actually leaning towards the fairness doctrine being bad. if nothing else, it seems to leave way too much room for a broad interpretation of the rules and what is acceptable. it seems like a media loophole that doesn’t need to be opened

  451. billalmighty says:

    i wish m2 was around so she could gloat

  452. VotingFemale says:

    Bill, happens to us all… just copy/paste the comment to which you are responding…
    as I just did.

    billalmighty says

    i also type too slow so i end up answering comments that are way up the page, and i’m sure everyone goes, “what the hell does he mean by THAT?”

    sorry, i have man hands that don’t move with grace

  453. Foxwood says:

    Another one for Rose on the request line.
    Tobacco Road – Nashville Teens from the album Tobacco Road (1964)

    They were called the Nashville Teens, but they weren’t from Nashville and they weren’t teens. They were another British Invasion group making good blues music.

  454. VotingFemale says:

    Bill… I find it humorous that the Socialists, after the past 8 years of non-stop Bush bashing of the worst kind, that it is now “unpatriotic” to pick on poor ole Barack… and use the “they’re all racists” rant thinking that will stop criticism.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  455. Foxwood says:

    Danm, Dom DeLuise died. I loved him in Blazing Saddles, Cannon Ball Run, Silent Movie… 😦

  456. billalmighty says:

    vf said –

    And you will all see me speak up against the Mitt Romneys who fear thus hate Sarah Palin…
    Mitt made a Sexist Attack on Sarah at their little strip mall pizza joint… and you know what?
    If the GOP thought the PUMA Voter Backlash against Obama was humorous… watch the backlash against Mitt Romney over his Sexist Attacks on Sarah Palin.

    And Rush is calling it right…

    vf –

    i/m/o, as long as this remains true…the right wingers will be all alone having their victim parties , while judging all of their fellow americans who disagree and labeling them as socialists

    sarah palin will never be president of the US. there aren’t enough right wing christians to make it happen, and she will never win over the votes she needs at this point from the rest of the country. you can’t be for one set of ideas or group and think the rest of them will just accept you

    this isn’t my opinion…it’s been proven over and over.

  457. Foxwood says:

    The left bashed Regan alot on Voodoo Economics…

  458. billalmighty says:

    vf…i’m not sure i know any of the socialists that you do. most people in the regular world are moderate…i only find extremists on wordpress 😉

  459. Indycoltsfan says:

    OMG, A terrorist rapper! Whats Next?

    LONDON (CNN) — The latest video from Somalia’s al Qaeda-backed Al-Shabaab wing is as slickly produced as a reality TV show but with a startling message — complete with a hip-hop jihad vibe.

    Experts think Abu Mansoor al-Amriki, dubbed “The American” by al Qaeda, speaks in the Somali video.

    “Mortar by mortar, shell by shell, only going to stop when I send them to hell,” the unidentified voice raps on the video, which runs at least 18 minutes.

    The video also shows a man reported to be Abu Mansoor al-Amriki, dubbed “The American” by al Qaeda. He apparently is now in Somalia training and counseling Somalis from North America and Europe. He speaks in American English.

  460. billalmighty says:

    …another joke

  461. VotingFemale says:

    he was 75 years old… not bad… very funny man… and will be missed… rip Dom

  462. billalmighty says:

    yeah, rip dom

  463. VotingFemale says:

    Only 15% of the Voting Public are actual socialists which includes the socialist politicians… the rest are mind controlled lefties with a blindness of brand loyalty and stubborn refusal to think independently…

    There are centrists who are left leaning supporters of the Socialists… and by association the socialist brand rubs off on them.

    billalmighty says

    vf…i’m not sure i know any of the socialists that you do. most people in the regular world are moderate…i only find extremists on wordpress

  464. Indycoltsfan says:

    All the old ones are dying off now. How sad!

  465. billalmighty says:

    vf said

    Only 15% of the Voting Public are actual socialists which includes the socialist politicians… the rest are mind controlled lefties with a blindness of brand loyalty and stubborn refusal to think independently…

    hmmm..

    wow, i hope i’m a smart as the conservatives, or right-leaning centrists, or constitutionalists someday so that i’ll know the REAL truth and not continue to be a mind controlled lefty with a stubborn refusal to think!

    if i agree with them do i get to be one? i want to be enlightened too!

  466. billalmighty says:

    i know what you mean vf….i’m just practicing my smartass skills

  467. Foxwood says:

    VF wrote:
    “Only 15% of the Voting Public are actual socialists which includes the socialist politicians… the rest are mind controlled lefties with a blindness of brand loyalty and stubborn refusal to think independently…”

    That is a product of public school and collage indoctrination, maybe even diet. You know lack of protein affects the mind. Look at Jeneane Godawfulhole.

  468. Indycoltsfan says:

    Bill, Don’t piss off VF. If you do she will sharpen her claws on your back. LOL!

  469. VotingFemale says:

    Bill? One of the Hallmarks of a true Centrist is belief in a balanced two party system.

    I thus work closely to counteract the almost total imbalance of this One Party Rule we are seeing and did the same thing during the first six years of the Bush administration.

    Neither party should hold all the cards… In my view as a centrist. That I am a conservative centrist is in part due to the Socialists dangerous behaviors… if we were to be forced to choose between left and right for a for all time one party system I choose the Right over the Left…

  470. LisaInTX says:

    Bill
    I stated earlier…the line was drawn and everyone and I mean EVERYONE, that does not agree with their agenda 100% are deemed a threat to be discredited and destroyed at all cost, regardless of the means of doing it.
    I’m one of the least racist or divisive persons I know, yet I have been called everything and anything for MONTH’S for questioning the Enchanted One.
    So pardon me if I sound a bit ‘defensive’, but I am what they have made me into and YES, they can ALL KISS MY ASS!@!! Offense intended 100%—lmao…hahaha ;-}

  471. VotingFemale says:

    The Obamunists did it to Hillary… and they still won the white house… so much for your doom and gloom predictions, victim! lol! ;P

    vf –

    i/m/o, as long as this remains true…the right wingers will be all alone having their victim parties ,

  472. Indycoltsfan says:

    Any system that works against productivity and rewards mediocraty and faliure is not sustainable and doomed to failure as well.

  473. LisaInTX says:

    Too bad about Dom! He was a great actor and made millions laugh. That is a gift hard to find in acting today. RIP Dom.

  474. billalmighty says:

    i agree 100% with that vf, except the total imbalance part.

    i think that is a vehicle used by conservatives to promote the cause

    it’s a marketing tool

    the conservative message is and has been out there for many years….it’s just not very widely accepted.

    this is a dilemma for conservatives….that kind of rejection is too much to accept, so they claim unpopularity through censorship and media in order to explain the lack of mainstream support

    someone else is always to blame for the right’s problems…..it’s never the right itself

  475. Foxwood says:

    Lunch is over, gotta go.

    House of the Rising Sun – The Animals from the album The Animals (1964)

  476. VotingFemale says:

    BillTheVictim thinks The Enchanted One is being picked on… hahahahahaha

    you should have seen me react to the Sliming of Palin at iReports during the Campaign…

    I pulled out all the stops… and man! did the hypocritical socialist sheeplets go postal over it…

    I still laugh about it… you should have seen some of my posts… I should go find some of them.

    hahahahahahahahahaha

    THEY WENT SO POSTAL I SWEAR THE HEADS OF SOME OF THEM EXPLODED!

    KAAA BOOM!!!

  477. billalmighty says:

    lisa…that’s crap!

    lots of people disagree with some of obama’s policies…even his own party

    the real world is not the same as ireport!!

  478. LisaInTX says:

    I still don’t get the right and the left lines? Either you are with the Socialist-Marxist Workers Party aka Dem Party or you are against them. Cut and dry—no gray areas as they deem you a threat if you are not 100% ‘with them’.
    This is what THEY have done to our country, not the right or the conservatives, not the religious leaders, etc…..this is coming straight from the reincarnated Hitler Regime.

  479. Indycoltsfan says:

    Gvsmr , The Palin hater. I think he had about 30 plus palin hate posts on ireport before they pulled the plug on him. I know I lost about 4 brave avatars battling that SOB on those posts. LOL!

  480. billalmighty says:

    lisa…that’s your opinion

    i don’t find any comparison at all between hitler and obama

    i’m not a centrist, though….i’m a victim. lol

  481. VotingFemale says:

    Hey Bill? iReport is just one of many websites where lefties and righties square off…

    and the rants and chats of the Obamunists are all over the internet and real life…

    Go over to Huffington Post or the DailyKos and have a look see…

    Lisa is dead on…

  482. billalmighty says:

    vf-

    she may be dead on about liberal bloggers…but that’s a very small percentage of the population, and even a smaller percentage of actual voters –

    to make that your montra based on extremists on the net who can’t get over the election? yikes

  483. VotingFemale says:

    Lisa? You will get a kick out of the Huff Po post!

    hahahahahahahahaha

    Arianna Huffington: The Stress Tests Fail The Smell Test

    The results of the much-anticipated bank stress tests are finally set to be released on Thursday. But we can already give the Obama economic team a grade for the way the tests have been handled: F. For starters, why the holdup in releasing the results? It’s been ten days since the Treasury Department and the Fed let the banks in on the preliminary results of the tests. So how come the public — you know, the ones who keep bailing out the banks — are still, ten days later, in the dark? The banks are using this time to negotiate the results. This is the equivalent of a teacher giving a student a look at his grades and allowing the student to try to cut a better deal before report cards are sent home to mom and dad.

  484. billalmighty says:

    and is obama to blame for the bank’s performance?

  485. Indycoltsfan says:

    You all have got to read this article because you are not going to F ***ing believe this.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/30580830

  486. VotingFemale says:

    Obama will get the blame for the fleas on BO…
    live with it! hahahahahahaha

    billalmighty says

    and is obama to blame for the bank’s performance?

  487. Indycoltsfan says:

    yep, your right. Odumba owns this bag of s**t now and he will get the blame for whatever goes wrong.

  488. billalmighty says:

    here’s another thing

    conservatives disbelieve nearly every word out of any liberal or democrat’s mouth

    in fact, they believe very little from any conservative politicians either, except palin

    however, they absolutely trust and rely on entertainers who are paid huge salaries to say controversial and inflammatory shit for hype and ratings on the fox news network.

    and like steele’s african americans – they hear the conservative voice that says, “i’ll watch out for you and protect you….the liberals won’t help you. who will take care of you without us?”

    same mentality

  489. VotingFemale says:

    actually, Indy, I am not really surprised by it.

    The supply exceeds demand… bigger Boat builders often buy used big boats just to cut them up to get them off the market to boost the value of their new boats.

  490. VotingFemale says:

    your generalization falls short of believability, Bill.

    All Conservatives I am aware of believe quite a bit what Obama and his maurading band of Socialists say…

    Case in point… Barack’s wealth spreader response to Joe the Plumber.

    I believed Obama meant what he said… he would spread around the wealth… and that is exactly what he is doing.

    hahahahahahaha

    billalmighty says

    here’s another thing

    conservatives disbelieve nearly every word out of any liberal or democrat’s mouth

  491. billalmighty says:

    i’m not making any of this up

    i’m speaking from my experiences in this group on this blog

    yeah, joe the plumber…right

  492. Indycoltsfan says:

    I understand vf but it’s such a waste of materials and everyone loses. There are plenty of hungry small contactors out there that could get a deal on some of these homes and fix them up for a small profit. By taking the strusture down everyone loses. I would rather make something than lose all of it.

  493. VotingFemale says:

    I also recall the all out personal war that was waged by the Future Obama Presidential Press Corps on a private citizen, Joe the Plumber…

    cant hide the behavior… and that is one of the major reasons so many news papers are out of businesss and are going out of business and outfits like MSNBC are struggling now… their prime time ratings are 50% below Fox News…

    and the beat goes on…

  494. billalmighty says:

    i know, joe the victim. lol

  495. VotingFemale says:

    Joe the Hero flips the bird at the Socialists

    just cant keep a good man down!

    hehehehehehe

    and the Socialists go postal

  496. VotingFemale says:

    This current crop of Socialists are not even good at it… they keep screwing up… ;P

    Mao and Lenin must be rolling over in their graves

    hahahahahahahahahaha

  497. billalmighty says:

    unfortunately the repubs are victims of themselves most of all. some of them realize it and would like to fix it. others are too busy hating and being right. conservatives are losing the battle.

    look, i’m not for the liberals…

    i’m Against the conservatives continuing to decrease their odds of winning elections because they have a childish f’ing point to make!!

    i want conservatives to get it together and act like leaders….not stone throwers!

    everyone has a point to make for nothing…..all this conservative talk and money and government bashing will only make it worse.

    i’m sad that conservatives are letting liberals win

  498. VotingFemale says:

    And now??

    A word from Moderate Liberals….

    Obama Tax Haven Plan Faces Opposition From Democrats

    Bloomberg :

    President Barack Obama’s plan to end tax breaks for U.S.-based multinational companies drew a skeptical response from fellow Democrats on Capitol Hill, indicating that his plan may face obstacles on its path through Congress.

    Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, a Montana Democrat, called for “further study” of Obama’s proposals within minutes of the president’s announcement yesterday. Representative Joseph Crowley, a Democrat on the tax-writing House Ways and Means Committee, said he’s wary because the tax changes would hurt Citigroup Inc., his New York district’s largest private-sector employer.

    for the rest see: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=aaXFFJBizJtc&refer=politics

    Obama is one stupid dik hed

  499. rosehips says:

    thought this was interesting. saw it in the Huff Post. These are the highest paid ceo’s for 2008. It includes salaries, bonuses, perks, stock options etc. Now if they paid 35% taxes on that money last year and this year will have to pay 37%, who feels bad for them? Is this considered socialism? spreading the wealth? ok, maybe. but think of how much they are left with. Is this an injustice?
    And how many get out of paying taxes by finding loopholes? Should this be ok when you and I have to pay taxes?

    1. Aubrey McClendon, Chesapeake Energy Corp., $112.5 million

    2. Sanjay Jha, Motorola Inc., $104.4 million

    3. Robert Iger, Walt Disney Co., $51.1 million

    4. Lloyd Blankfein, Goldman Sachs Group Inc., $42.9 million

    5. Kenneth Chenault, American Express Co., $42.9 million

    6. Vikram Pandit, Citigroup Inc., $38.2 million

    7. Steven Farris, Apache Corp., $37.2 million

    8. Louis Camilleri, Philip Morris International Inc., $36.9 million

    9. Kevin Johnson, Juniper Networks Inc., $36.1 million

    10. Jamie Dimon, JPMorgan Chase & Co., $35.7 million

  500. billalmighty says:

    vf –

    on that overseas tax issue –

    i posted that very thing this morning up the page

    in this case, however…i think obama is doing good and it’s harry reid and some of the dems who are trying to further the corruption

    after all…where will they get campaign money from is they piss of corporate america?

  501. rosehips says:

    Joe the Plumber tells “Christianity Today” “I would never let queers near my children.”

    great spokesman for the right and christians everywhere joe. gawd, if I was a conservative I would do everything possible to muzzle that wingnut.

  502. billalmighty says:

    maybe they didn’t all get the memo about the whole brainwashing socialist takeover thing after all 😉

  503. VotingFemale says:

    Aubrey Mcclendon is a Democrat who contributed heavily to Liberal PACs and candidates in 2008

  504. rosehips says:

    From wiki:

    McClendon is the chairman of the board for American Clean Skies Foundation, a non-profit foundation that educates the public on clean energy sources.

    Since 2000 McClendon has donated $678,050.00 to a variety of Republican candidates and conservative interest groups [7]. Most notable of these was a $250,000 donation to Swift Vets and POWs for Truth, a group whose purpose was opposing John Kerry’s candidacy for the presidency in 2004. His donation made him the eighth largest contributor to the group.

  505. VotingFemale says:

    Maybe… a few of them are waking up from their Obama Hopium High and realizing Obama is going to destroy the Liberal Party…

    I have been aware of it for a long time…

    billalmighty says

    maybe they didn’t all get the memo about the whole brainwashing socialist takeover thing after all 😉

  506. billalmighty says:

    wtf? who cares what aubrey’s politics are? it’s a list to show ceo salaries??

    is that what centrists do? pull out stuff like that from that comment?

    hmmm…interesting strategy

  507. rosehips says:

    and fyi, american clean skies foundation is a front. I don’t even have to google it to know that and I’m sure you all realize that too.

  508. billalmighty says:

    lol

  509. LisaInTX says:

    bill
    They LIE about being “The Tolerant Ones”, yet they self-righteously and carelessly spew the race card , call folks a bigot, a Bible thumper, terrorist, homophobes, etc….at every turn, just because to question their agenda is ruled by the SMWP aka Socialist Marxist Worker Party-Dem Party–LOL, as a reason to seek and destroy you at whatever means available.
    And YES, this is MY opinion and I’m DAMNED
    WELL sticking to it!! ;-}

  510. VotingFemale says:

    Joe is as welcome to his opinion of gays as gays are of him…

    lol

  511. billalmighty says:

    only joe is a conservative poster boy…

    gays are well….just gays

    lol

  512. VotingFemale says:

    Example of an extremist’s reaction to a centrist’s efforts to balance the scales…

    DEMOCRAT MAKES $114 million but no mention of their party is made… leaving people to assume it was a Republican…

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA

    billalmighty says

    wtf? who cares what aubrey’s politics are? it’s a list to show ceo salaries??

    is that what centrists do? pull out stuff like that from that comment?

    hmmm…interesting strategy

  513. LisaInTX says:

    Vf
    The ‘banks’ are being held hostage and have been threatened by the white house. The Mafia and the Godfather would be so proud huh? Where is Elliot Ness when we need him? ;-/

  514. rosehips says:

    lol.
    looks like mcclendon is an equal opportunity bi-partisan briber. Gotta hedge yer bets, dontcha know. Hahahahahaha

    here’s his contributions for 2008. looks like he gives to everybody who has an inkling of a chance!

    http://www.newsmeat.com/ceo_political_donations/Aubrey_McClendon.php

  515. rosehips says:

    vf, where did you find info on mcclendon’s party affiliation. are you sure he’s a democrat?

  516. billalmighty says:

    according to wiki

    centrist=victim

    😉

  517. LisaInTX says:

    Bill
    What IS a conservative? LOL….hahahaaa
    Is it right or left? Hmmmm…..seems I remember a time when I USED to be a Democrat AND was also a conservative. Guess what? The two can NO LONGER co-exist in the same party!
    Why you may ask? Because of what I have ALREADY stated. You are either 100% with them or you are their enemy…period!

    Bill says
    “conservatives disbelieve nearly every word out of any liberal or democrat’s mouth”

  518. rosehips says:

    I don’t feel for the banks or the auto industry or any of the stockholders who are losing money because they got greedy. I think it’s unconscionable that people are making so many millions of dollars while people are losing homes because of unscrupulous practices. I think homeowners need to take responsibility and people who max out their credit cards as well and just generally spend more than they should. And President Obama talks like everyone should be able to own a home and get an education and buy a new car and generally live like it was 1999. well hello? it ain’t 1999 and it never will be again.

  519. VotingFemale says:

    George Soros, the Dark Lord of the Socialists, made over $1 billion dollars in 2008 and makes big bucks speculation on the loss of value of the US Dollar… thus directs the Obama Administration in it’s march to destroy the value of the Dollar by printing funny money and borrowing the US into collapse…

    This just in, China is now talking of cutting off the credit line to Obama… China is heavily invested in the US Dollar and are smart enough to see what George Soros and Co are up to!

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Put that in your Bong and smoke it, Enchanted One!!!

    dang his is a dik hed!!!!!

  520. billalmighty says:

    unfortunately the repubs are victims of themselves most of all. some of them realize it and would like to fix it. others are too busy hating and being right. conservatives are losing the battle.

    look, i’m not for the liberals…

    i’m Against the conservatives continuing to decrease their odds of winning elections because they have a childish f’ing point to make!!

    i want conservatives to get it together and act like leaders….not stone throwers!

    everyone has a point to make for nothing…..all this conservative talk and money and government bashing will only make it worse.

    i’m sad that conservatives are letting liberals win

  521. Indycoltsfan says:

    Anybody been on icry today. It takes forever to get a comment posted.

  522. VotingFemale says:

    According to reality… anyone who quotes Wiki as an authoritative source is behaving foolishly teehee

  523. VotingFemale says:

    I agree… the behavior of the hard liner conservatives handed the Enchanted One the election. it was their dumb assed assumptions of invulnerability that lead to it… and having majority in both houses and the white house.

    now the Socialist fall prey to the exact same thing!

    Wink! Wink!
    You Betcha!

    billalmighty says

    unfortunately the repubs are victims of themselves most of all.

  524. LisaInTX says:

    The hidy holes that the Socialist party have been stashing all those back taxes in has been exposed by the Enchanted One. LMAO….put that in their peace pipe and smoke That socialist dawgs!…hahahaa ;-}

  525. billalmighty says:

    lisa –

    i am not for liberals

    i am against anything that hurts or diminishes the chances for conservative candidates to win, or for the republican party to become mainstream

    if centrists are too caught up in being right or tearing obama down…then they are not interested in winning or correcting anything they complain about or winning over any new supporters….they just want to trash obama because he beat their candidates….in some cases twice

  526. VotingFemale says:

    Indy, I seldom cruise iCry… it is just the same few Socialist morons who now have been de-balled by Davidw.

  527. LisaInTX says:

    Dang VF—we sure think alike!! LMAO….hahahaaa
    Peace pipe and all…hahahaa ;-}

  528. VotingFemale says:

    Them Socialist Millionaires/Billionaires are gonna rake Obama over an open pit!!!!

    Yeah Obama! Close them Loopholes and Spank them Conservatives opps! There are as many Liberals as Conservatives?

    Joke’s on you, Obama! You dik hed!!!

    LisaInTX says

    The hidy holes that the Socialist party have been stashing all those back taxes in has been exposed by the Enchanted One. LMAO….put that in their peace pipe and smoke That socialist dawgs!…hahahaa ;-}

  529. billalmighty says:

    lisa –

    centrists are for other centrists and a handful of others they choose

    that doesn’t include very many people…..certainly not enough to win an election

  530. VotingFemale says:

    Centrists=Swing Voters

    Swing Voters gave Obama the win…

    just as they did for Bush

    yawn

  531. LisaInTX says:

    Bill
    The divisiveness has already been done. I agree it is time to reform and regroup for the betterment of the ‘right”…whatever the hell that means, but we do need to focus on solutions. :-} But first, we must bring about awareness of what IS WRONG, to get the messege out there to the masses in order to FIND solutions.
    Right now DENIAL, Blame and indifference are the biggest problems, so we must isolate the problems and destroy the credibility of those that spew the crap. Hmmm…straight out of Saul’s book…. hahahaaa

  532. VotingFemale says:

    Attacking Every American who does not agree with Obama is the dumbest most divisive and derisive act so far in Obama’s presidency.

    Many people who were swing voters are not taking it lying down…

    Obama is the most divisive president since Lincoln, in my opinion.

  533. billalmighty says:

    hmmm

    ok, so i have no idea what a centrist is

    apparently i’m not one

    but my non partisan friends who voted for obama or bush are?

    i’m scratchin my head now

    i better give the eyeballs a rest from this anyway

    thanks all for the lively chatter!

  534. VotingFemale says:

    Obama’s Bid to End Offshore Tax Havens Faces Hurdle in Congress

    May 5 (Bloomberg) — President Barack Obama’s plan to end tax breaks for U.S.-based multinational companies drew a skeptical response from fellow Democrats on Capitol Hill, indicating that his plan may face obstacles on its path through Congress.

    Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, a Montana Democrat, called for “further study” of Obama’s proposals within minutes of the president’s announcement yesterday. Representative Joseph Crowley, a Democrat on the tax-writing House Ways and Means Committee, said he’s wary because the tax changes would hurt Citigroup Inc., his New York district’s largest private-sector employer.

    Natalie Ravitz, a spokeswoman for Senator Barbara Boxer, a California Democrat, said that any tax overhaul should not lead to “unintended consequences.”

    Other Democrats, including House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Charles Rangel of New York, support the proposal. Some lawmakers, including Iowa Senator Charles Grassley, the ranking Republican on the Senate finance panel, are still weighing the plan.

    Obama proposed outlawing three offshore tax-saving strategies commonly used by companies such as Citigroup, General Electric Co., and Procter & Gamble Co. In doing so, he reignited debate about whether U.S. companies can remain competitive in world markets if they have to pay billions of dollars in taxes on foreign profits.

    Lawmakers will have “a great deal of willingness to listen to companies” that face as much as a 10 percent tax increase under Obama’s plan, said Clinton Stretch, managing principal of Deloitte Tax LLP in Washington. One proposal to limit deductions by companies that defer U.S. tax payments on foreign profits faces “very tough sledding in the Senate,” he said.

    ‘Broken Tax System’

    The U.S. has “a broken tax system” that is “full of corporate loopholes that makes it perfectly legal for companies to avoid paying their fair share,” Obama said as he outlined his plan with Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner at the White House. Obama called most of the breaks “unjustifiable” and likened some company practices to a “tax scam.”

    That rhetoric stung some executives: Carl Guardino, chief executive of the Silicon Valley Leadership Group, told Treasury officials on a conference call after the speech that Obama’s “word choices were a bit troubling” because chief executives in his organization are “proud Americans.”

    A reporter for Bloomberg News, who identified himself and his affiliation, was on the call between Treasury officials and the business leaders.

    Surprised

    In an interview after the call, Guardino said he and 52 other top executives of companies such as Hewlett-Packard Co., Intel Corp., and Oracle Corp., meeting in Washington this week found it “surprising to be construed in the same way as tax cheats.”

    The package of corporate and individual tax changes, which will be part of a detailed budget the administration plans to release May 7, would generate about $210 billion in tax revenue over the next decade, according to Treasury estimates. Obama’s proposals, if adopted, wouldn’t take effect until 2011.

    For the biggest chunk, the administration expects to raise $86.5 billion through 2019 by ending a strategy that lets U.S.- based multinational companies effectively hide the role their foreign subsidiaries play in shifting profits into low-tax jurisdictions such as the Cayman Islands.

    The proposal, combined with a $60.1 billion plan to limit many expense deductions for American companies that take advantage of laws allowing them to defer tax on foreign profits and a $43 billion crackdown on abusive foreign tax credits, including those with artificially inflated values, would be the biggest tax increase on U.S. corporations since 1986.

    Burden of Proof

    Obama’s plan also would shift the burden of proof to individuals when the IRS alleges assets are being hidden in certain offshore bank accounts, the White House said in a statement.

    In exchange, Obama proposed to make permanent a research and experimentation credit worth about $75 billion over the same period to manufacturers and other companies that can claim it.

    Obama’s plan drew immediate criticism from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the Business Roundtable, a group of chief executives at some of the biggest U.S. companies. Roundtable President John Castellani said Obama is pushing “the wrong idea at the wrong time for the wrong reasons.”

    ‘Fresh Opinions’

    An advisory group headed by former Federal Reserve Chairman Paul Volcker, which is studying tax proposals, isn’t bound by Obama’s plan, said Gene Sperling, an economic adviser to the president. “They are there to give the president fresh opinions,” Sperling told corporate executives on the conference call about the tax plan.

    Obama based many of his proposals on earlier ideas by Democratic lawmakers such as Senator Carl Levin of Michigan, Representative Lloyd Doggett of Texas, and Rangel.

    Baucus, who said he supports the president’s overall goals, said it’s best to consider an overhaul of international tax rules as part of a broader rewrite of the tax code.

    “Further study is needed to assess the impact of this plan on U.S. businesses,” Baucus said in a statement.

    In a separate statement, Crowley said he favors taking steps to “protect U.S. multinational companies, including Citibank which is the largest private-sector employer in Queens, so they are not subject to double taxation overseas.”

    ‘Misunderstanding’

    Boxer’s spokeswoman Ravitz said that the senator’s experience in pushing a corporate “repatriation” tax holiday “indicates that there is a great deal of misunderstanding surrounding these issues.”

    Other lawmakers reacted more favorably.

    “Our tax code should reward companies that thrive by continuing to invest in America and American workers,” Rangel said. “I applaud President Obama’s commitment to simplifying our tax code and look forward to working with the administration to close these loopholes.”

    Grassley said he supports efforts to crack down on tax abuse. “Out of fairness, corporate taxpayers generally shouldn’t pay pennies on the dollar compared to the rest of Americans,” Grassley said. However, he said, if Obama is “using tax shelters as a stalking horse to raise taxes on corporations at the cost of U.S. jobs, he’ll lose me.”

    To contact the reporter on this story: Ryan J. Donmoyer in Washington at rdonmoyer@bloomberg.net
    Last Updated: May 5, 2009 00:03 EDT

    from: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=aaXFFJBizJtc&refer=politics

  535. LisaInTX says:

    Since I’ve been deemed a racist, terrorist, etc… maybe I need to go back to my roots. Reengaging my father’s “racist white man music” country and western swing and the days of old where the words “The South will rise again” meant days of being gracious and men of honor. Perhaps even by displaying a rebel flag outside my door, along with a Don’t Tread On Me, the MIA and the USA Flag?? Maybe THEN, I’d be able to show my ‘true colors” huh?

  536. VotingFemale says:

    and no doubt… if the Enchanted One succeeds in closing off shore loopholes… he will bring down a shit storm on himself and his radical Socialist Pack of Zombies like Charles Rangel. Pelosi, Reid, and good ole Barney Frank’n’Beans

  537. VotingFemale says:

    BTW, Barney is a real life Tea Bagger… and proud of it! 😉

    Wink! Wink!
    You Betcha!

  538. billalmighty says:

    “The Government Accountability Office reported that over 80 percent of the hundred biggest U.S. companies took advantage of tax havens.

    In 2008 the GAO found that one five-story building in the Cayman Islands, known as the “Ugland House,” contained 18,857 registered businesses, very few of which had anything but a P.O. box there.

    Bailout beneficiaries Morgan Stanley, Citigroup, and Bank of America boast over 300 subsidiaries in the Cayman Islands.”

    “In 2004, U.S.-based multinational corporations paid about $16 billion in U.S. taxes while earning about $700 billion offshore, an effective tax rate of about 2.3 percent, according to the administration statement. The top marginal tax rate for U.S. companies is 35 percent; drug companies such as Amgen Inc. and technology companies such as Microsoft are among companies that make the biggest use of tax-deferral benefits.

    The rules were originally designed to reduce paperwork for companies and the IRS by allowing companies to classify entities within their corporate structure in the most tax-efficient manner without inviting a tax challenge.

    Unintended Consequence

    Clinton administration officials realized they also had made it easy for multinationals to create entities whose only purpose was to shift profits into low-tax countries and out of reach of the tax authorities, according to a January Government Accountability Office report that found 83 of the 100 biggest companies had subsidiaries in tax havens.

    Once the assets were in the haven, the U.S. parent company borrowed from the subsidiary. The interest payments were deductible in the U.S. and tax-free in the haven, the GAO said.”

  539. billalmighty says:

    i’m really taking a break now…thanks vf, lisa, belle, rose, indy, and anyone i missed

  540. LisaInTX says:

    VF
    AMEN SISTER!!!!!!!

    “Attacking Every American who does not agree with Obama is the dumbest most divisive and derisive act so far in Obama’s presidency.

    Many people who were swing voters are not taking it lying down…”

    Isn’t this where we yell they can KISS OUR A$$??LMAO…hahaha;-}

  541. LisaInTX says:

    Vf
    Thanks for posting this…this is the interview I mentioned earlier that set me off on another RANT last night—LOL
    It’s SO funny how the Dem Party has made ONLY the Repub party the ‘FATCAT” aka parallel to “Jews” during Hitler occupation, when most likely, if the accounting were done HONESTLY, they are equal in wealth and are most likely WORST than the Repub’s work ethics etc……geez, we just can not make this $hit up! Obama and his roving apology tour just keep biting themselves on the butt cheeks…LOL

    VF posted
    ‘Broken Tax System’

    The U.S. has “a broken tax system” that is “full of corporate loopholes that makes it perfectly legal for companies to avoid paying their fair share,” Obama said as he outlined his plan with Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner at the White House. Obama called most of the breaks “unjustifiable” and likened some company practices to a “tax scam.”

  542. Foxwood says:

    Rose said:
    “And how many get out of paying taxes by finding loopholes? Should this be ok when you and I have to pay taxes?”

    The “loopholes” they are getting rid of were there for a reason. Therefor not a cheat. They were place in the code for a reason. Obama calls them loopholes to make the public believe they are workarounds or cheats.

    Example, the portion of the tax code was put in that lets companies pay less taxes when they reside in another country was because they already pay those taxes in the residing country. They still have to pay US taxes minus the taxes they paid in the other country.

    Obama thinks he will bring those jobs back home when they have to double pay taxes…. We’ll see. I would rather have more jobs in our country. I’m not so sure this will work tho.

  543. VotingFemale says:

    I made a new post… the comment refresh on this one is over the top…

    lets continue the conversation on the new one…

    https://votingfemale.wordpress.com/2009/05/05/obama-uses-presidency-to-attack-retirees-invested-in-chrysler-to-benefit-his-own-socialist-party/

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